If you have a dream and you love these plays, don’t let anyone tell you it can’t happen. It will break your back and tear your heart out at times, but if you have that dream, please don’t give up on it because the theatre needs you—we need the people who won’t take “no” for an answer! — Annie Occhiogrosso
If you’re looking for what it takes to be an actor long-term, over the course of your LIFE, then you’ve come to the right place, and you’re going to really enjoy today’s episode!
Do you have some really audacious goals, or maybe even a few crazy ideas? Guess what, you’re not alone! And in fact, the world needs you to go after those and to not give up! That’s exactly where our guests were: despite working regularly and finding success, they didn’t see the kind of projects they wanted to do, so they created a place where it could happen, and through years of dedicated and hard work, it became hugely successful. But it wasn’t all roses: they ultimately walked away from it, and created a whole new chapter of their careers. We cover the highs and lows, and lots more of this journey!
Today on the show is a special one—it’s a double-bill! For the first time, we have TWO guests: Randall Duk Kim and his lifelong professional partner—and wife—Annie Occhiogrosso, one of the great teams of the American theatre. They have worked together their entire professional lives and are dedicated to the classics, and in particular, to the works of William Shakespeare. Actually, given the Shakespeare nerd that I am—and especially since I’ve started this podcast and learned more about the previous generation of actors—I was really stunned I hadn’t come across them before. To me, it would be like just learning about our past guests Armin Shimerman or Dakin Matthews—two giants in the Shakespeare acting and teaching world. It just goes to show how many amazing and wonderful lifelong actors are out there! If this is your first time discovering Randall and Annie, you are in for a treat.
Now what’s wonderful about how this connection came about is that our guest Harry Groener casually mentioned to me that he remembered seeing Randall as “Richard III” at ACT in San Francisco, and how amazed he was by that performance. So, I just found Randall’s website, sent an email, and they said Yes! And what’s great is now you’ll get to hear what was going on for Randall with that show and the rest of his career – all the successes and challenges of this great actor, with Annie working right alongside him. Everyone struggles, everyone has victories, and that never changes.
As we hit a fantastic milestone of 25 episodes, I want to share a few quick thoughts looking back.
I’m releasing this episode just after the Oscars, and those were really the only actors I knew growing up—the people on TV and in movies. I feel very fortunate that has changed. I’m proud of these conversations and it has been such a blast doing this. Ok, the scheduling, following up with guests, and the editing have been, at times, a pain in the ass, but listening back to these conversations and getting this content out there, has been so rewarding.
I have learned so much from everyone and I continue to hear their voices over and over in my head (in a good way!) of all the things that can help me in life and in my career. I really do wish I had heard some of these things 20 years ago. It might have really helped. The guests here are the kind of actors you want to emulate: they have made a lifelong career in this profession. They do exceptional work and have the respect of their peers and of the industry. So whether or not you ever see them on that Oscar stage, these actors are all winners.
Just a bit of what we cover in this episode with Randall and Annie:
- Not seeing race as any kind of barrier in theatre
- Moving to New York and submitting to every Shakespeare festival
- Why Annie initially despised Randall over his casting in a play
- The ideas and misconceptions behind “classical” and “method” acting
- Starting their own theatre to work on Shakespeare’s First Folio
- How Randall, a lifelong classical actor, ended up in The Matrix
And so much more! Plus, we get another mini-Shakespeare master class: Randall and Annie dive into Hamlet’s advice to the Players and share so many wonderful tips and tools!
As I’ve said before, one of the reasons I love these chats is because of our link to the past. We’ve heard it dozens of times before, and in this case, with Randall and Annie, their mentors included Morris Carnofsky and Phoebe Brand, founders of the Group Theatre in the 1930s, which is so cool! You’ll hear how Randall was inspired by seeing Morris onstage, and the collaboration and friendship all four of them had.
About the guests
Randall Duk Kim has been acting professionally for 50+ years, playing dozens of leading roles in everything from Shakespeare to Moliere to Chekhov to the Greeks—acting at major theatres all around the world, from Honolulu to Vermont to Singapore! If I start listing everything he’s done, we’ll be here all day!
He has also amassed an impressive amount of notable film and TV credits over the last 25 years, including as the “Keymaker” in The Matrix, “Master Oogway” in the Kung Fu Panda franchise, and as the “Doctor” in the John Wick films. He has received an Off Broadway Obie Award for “Sustained Excellence of Performance”
Annie Occhiogrosso has worked as a director, dramaturg, acting coach and actress. She was co-artistic director of the American Players Theatre and received national attention for her body of work there, directing 16 Shakespearean plays along with works by Moliere, Ibsen, Plautus, and Chekhov.
She has performed the roles of “The Nurse” in Romeo and Juliet, “Gertrude” in Hamlet, “Natalya” in The Proposal, “Madame Arkadina” in The Seagull, “Jocasta” in Oedipus Rex and “Anna Petrovna” in Ivanov
Annie has taught at the Stella Adler Conservatory of Acting and at the New York Shakespeare Festival.
The theatre they co-founded, American Players Theatre, in Spring Green, Wisconsin was (get ready for this list!) the only professional, outdoor, classical, rotating repertory theatre company in America at that time. Under their leadership, American Players Theatre received a Tony Award nomination for “Outstanding Regional Theatre”.
Please enjoy my chat with Randall Duk Kim and Annie Occhiogrosso!
Total Running Time: 2:17:00
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Want to hear from another Shakespeare scholar and actor? Check out my talk with Dakin Matthews!
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let us know in the comments.
Scroll below for links mentioned in today’s episode and additional show notes…
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Show Notes
Randall Duk Kim and Annie Occhiogrosso around the web
His Site | Wikipedia | Film/TV | Broadway | Off-Broadway (and his earlier years) | Additional Theatre
Their PBS episode: Our 40 year Love Affair with William Shakespeare
Highlights
- Randall growing up in Honolulu, a small town at the time
- How we was exposed to classical theatre: Broadway in the middle of the Pacific!
- Not seeing his race as any kind of barrier in theatre
- How his parents felt about his pursuit about theatre
- Why he began his college studies in Religion and was very passionate about it
- Getting on the show Hawaii 5-0 and why he disliked TV and film
- Moving to New York and submitting to every Shakespeare festival
- His attempts to start a theatre in Honolulu with modern classics
- The production that brought him to the mainland and gave him his Equity card
- Why Annie initially despised Randall over his casting in a play
- Learning his makeup technique at a young age from books at the library
- Randall’s great inspiration when he stumbled onto The Old Globe in San Diego
- The ideas and misconceptions behind “classical” and “method” acting
- How Randall and Annie’s lives intersected after college, bringing them together for life
- Discovering the First Folio of Shakespeare’s plays when working on Hamlet in Hawaii
- All the different items and differences one can find in the First Folio as clues to the actor
- Their vision of doing First Folio versions of the plays with no cuts, to see how they worked
- Finding the space for their theatre in the middle of Wisconsin
- Why Randall felt comfortable playing King Lear at such a young age
- What Randall learned from playing so many major and lead roles with American Players Theatre
- The training and experience of repertory theatre vs. “industrial” and “factory” theatre
- Why repertory theatre struggles to exist in modern American theatre
- Their separation from the theatre they founded
- How leaving the theatre opened them up to teaching and doing film work
- How Randall, a lifelong classical actor, ended up in The Matrix
- The value of saying “no”, knowing your worth, and what you want to do
- Why Randall was only being offered non-lead roles after American Players Theatre
- How action movies and the Kung Fu Panda film came into his life
- Why Randall and Annie got married after 40+ years of being together
- Randall and Annie doing a bit of text work on Hamlet’s speech to the Players
- Some of the most important advice that actors can take from Hamlet’s advice
- How an actor can use and develop his or her own “discretion”
- How to look at Shakespeare’s First Folio, and how to play with it to find all the clues
- The possibility and joy of working on texts that demand so much
- Why “updated” productions of Shakespeare can make the audience feel more distant
- The roles that have really challenged Randall during his career
- Why the Greek plays speak to our time, and the many “women’s stories” there are to share
- The advice to their 25-year old selves and what they wish they had spent more time on
- Their daily routines together and how they spend their time
- Quotes they think of often and ones that continue to guide them
Selected People and Items Mentioned
- Earle Ernst
- Cyrano De Bergerac (1950 film)
- Seven Samurai film
- Quasimodo
- Hawaii 5-0 (1968 series)
- James Michener’s Hawaii novel
- Vermont (Burlington) Shakespeare Festival
- Randall as “Pericles” with the New York Shakespeare Festival
- Randall as “Trinculo” in The Tempest at Lincoln Center
- Charles Bright, their partner and the third founder of APT
- Hunter College, NY
- Brendan Behan’s The Hostage
- Morris Carnovsky, actor—watch him as King Lear here!
- The Group Theatre
- The Old Globe Theatre, San Diego
- Shakespeare’s First Folio
- American Place Theatre
- Alvin Epstein, Guthrie Theatre Artistic Director
- ACT Richard III with Randall—read the original program!
- Spring Green, Wisconsin
- American Players Theatre
- Phoebe Brand, actress
- Peter Zeisler, Head of TCG, co-founder of the Guthrie
- The Matrix Reloaded
- Mali Finn, casting director
- The Keymaker in The Matrix
- Anna and the King, film
- Kung Fu Panda franchise
- Randall in Cymbeline at the Delacorte
- Obie Awards
- John Wick films
- Their 40-Year Love Affair with Shakespeare presentation (see “around the web above” to watch!)
- Shakespeare’s First Texts by Neil Freeman
- Carnival Row, series on Amazon Prime
- Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill
Quotes to Live by
Keep in your souls some images of magnificence.
~ William Butler Yeats
Love the art in yourself, and not yourself in the art.
~ Konstantin Stanislavski
Randall’s monologue from Hamlet by Shakespeare – the “Advice to the Players” (from the First Folio)
[accordion clicktoclose=”true”][accordion-item title=”+ click to view/close the monologue” id=hamlet state=closed]HAMLET
Speake the Speech I pray you, as I pronounc’d
it to you trippingly on the Tongue: But if you mouth it,
as many of your Players do, I had as liue the Town-Cryer
had spoke my Lines: Nor do not saw the Ayre too much
your hand thus, but vse all gently; for in the verie Tor-
rent, Tempest, and (as I may say) the Whirle-winde of
Passion, you must acquire and beget a Temperance that
may giue it Smoothnesse. O it offends mee to the Soule,
to see a robustious Pery-wig-pated Fellow, teare a Passi-
on to tatters, to verie ragges, to split the eares of the
Groundlings: who (for the most part) are capeable of
nothing, but inexplicable dumbe shewes, & noise: I could
haue such a Fellow whipt for o’re-doing Termagant: it
out- Herod’s Herod. Pray you auoid it.
Be not too tame neyther: but let your owne
Discretion be your Tutor. Sute the Action to the Word,
the Word to the Action, with this speciall obseruance:
That you ore-stop not the modestie of Nature; for any
thing so ouer-done, is frõ the purpose of Playing, whose
end both at the first and now, was and is, to hold as ‘twer
the Mirrour vp to Nature; to shew Vertue her owne
Feature, Scorne her owne Image, and the verie Age and
Bodie of the Time, his forme and pressure. Now, this
ouer-done, or come tardie off, though it make the vnskil-
full laugh, cannot but make the Iudicious greeue; The
censure of the which One, must in your allowance o’re-
way a whole Theater of Others. Oh, there bee Players
that I haue seene Play, and heard others praise, and that
highly (not to speake it prophanely) that neyther hauing
the accent of Christians, nor the gate of Christian, Pagan,
or Norman, haue so strutted and bellowed, that I haue
thought some of Natures Iouerney-men had made men,
and not made them well, they imitated Humanity so ab-
hominably.
Randall and Annie’s TEDx Talk
From their APT days…
American Players Theatre founders (from left) Charles J. Bright, Randall Duk Kim, and Annie Occhiogrosso; also (far right) Dusty Priebe, instrumental in the theatre’s development
Annie and Randall as Maria and Malvolio in APT’s 1987 production of Shakespeare’s “Twelfth Night.”
Behind the Scenes on The Matrix: Reloaded
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYIGTgwAuKw
Excerpt of Randall on The Globe’s stage!
Production Photos
as Richard III at ACT in San Francisco, 1974
as Hamlet at The Guthrie Theatre, 1978
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