Week 2 – Shakespeare’s “Macbeth” – 2 scenes – The Rehearsal Room [Video, Audio, and Transcript versions]

Nathan Agin

Hi everybody. Welcome back. Nathan Agin with the Working Actors Journey Rehearsal Room. We are here for the second session of our exploration into a couple scenes from Shakespeare’s Macbeth. If you have been wondering what does the acting and theater work look like behind the curtain backstage before you go see the show, how does a group of artists make sense of this material and create real characters? That’s what we’re diving into in the rehearsal room. These sessions are unscripted. You’ll get to watch in real time how a group of artists put all of this together. If you wanna support the project, you can do that through Patreon. 

If you have questions or comments, leave them below you, you know, we’ll, we’ll do our best to have, you know, as many artists as possible. Respond to your questions. If you enjoy it, hit that like button. Definitely subscribe. So that you’ll be the first to know, first to know of future rehearsal sessions and new scenes and new things we’re we’re doing. 

I will quickly shout out to our co-stars at the Patreon, Patreon level and Higher. Joan and Michelle Christian, Jim Magdalene, evar, Claudia Cliff. Jeff, thank you very much for your support. And with that, I’m gonna retreat to the back of the theater and let all these fine folks get on with the scene and have a wonderful session. 

Nick Cagle

Thanks, Nathan. Welcome back everybody. How was your week? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Good. 

Nick Cagle

Megan, do you have any, oh, I forgot to ask you guys this week, and I wanted to ask if you, do you have a relationship with this play, or do you have a story from the first time you read Macbeth? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I did the handwashing scene as part of, I went to a, a high school that had, it was called a free school. And so you got to choose a, a lot of different classes. And one of the classes I got to do my senior year was Shakespeare in production. And so we staged the handwashing scene from this play. I had read it before ’cause I’m a super nerd, but I think we read it freshman year, maybe, or maybe read in eighth grade. I can’t remember. But it’s, it’s such an, it’s such an accessible play, I feel like. So I did that scene as part of my Shakespeare and production class. 

Nick Cagle

Well, you went straight to the hardcore scene too. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Oh yeah. 

Nick Cagle

Right at it. I wanna be crazy. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

That’s right. That’s right. 

Nick Cagle

How about you, mark, you got a story from the first time you read Macbeth? 

Mark Lawson

I, I don’t know if I have a story. I just, I mean, I was, and I’m still, I’ve always been a horror kid. And so when I discovered Shakespeare, I think in seventh grade with Romeo and Juliet, and then I just got a snippet of Macbeth. I, I dove in on it and pretty sure every acting school I ever went to, I did at least one scene from this, or a monologue or something, or a soliloquy. But I remember seeing, I think it was, didn’t Roman Polanski do a film of this? He did 

Nick Cagle

a really, there Is a seventies film. I’m not sure if it was, if it was his or not, but it’s great. I I love 

Mark Lawson

That. Yeah. It’s got a great, yeah, I remember seeing that and just being like, he’s my guy. Shakespeare’s my guy. And so I think this is the one that that crystallized it for me. 

Nick Cagle

That’s a really dark, dark film. I remember seeing that a long time ago, and it just scared the heck outta me. 

Mark Lawson

Yeah, sure. 

Nick Cagle

My original relationship with this was the Ian McKellan, Judy Dench production. 

Mark Lawson

Just got, 

Nick Cagle

I, that was on TV, so, you know, late at night and I was just clicking along and saw Young Ian McKellan and, and I was kind of, I think I was, you know, early in college and I, I was mesmerized. That is an inc. I is that Trevor Nunn? I think Trevor Nun directed that. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I think so, 

Nick Cagle

Man. The two of them were on fire and Shakespeare’s on fire. And I, I, that really, that just caught my eye. And I’ve been a fan ever since. 

Mark Lawson

I just saw, how 

Nick Cagle

About you, Gideon? Do you have a, do you remember the first time you ever read Macbeth? 

Gideon Rappaport

No, I don’t know because 

Nick Cagle

I’ve 

Gideon Rappaport

read it so many times. But my story is simply that I taught it every year to the sophomores for close to 40 years. And it was, as you say, mesmerizing to them. And because I would, I could open it up for them in a way that made them realize why it was so compelling. So it, it’s, it was great to catch people. I mean, they, in my schools, they’d already read Romeo and Juliet in ninth grade and probably Midsummer Night Stream in eighth grade maybe. But anyway, a lot of them hadn’t, ’cause they hadn’t gone to middle school there. In any case, it, it, it was thrilling to convert people to Shakespeare. 

And then I had them for another year when they were seniors and we went read Hamlet. So they were prepared by them. But it’s, it’s a great play to teach. It’s just, it’s a great play to have students read and discover how the meaning is coming through the words. 

Nick Cagle

I, yeah, I think I, it, I agree with what Megan said. There’s a certain accessibility to it, isn’t there? It feels like a more accessible play. I it’s just so good. It’s just so clean and so under, you know, I don’t know. We’re grateful to have you here to help us understand everything though, Gideon. For sure. 

Gideon Rappaport

That’s my pleasure. Of course. 

Nick Cagle

At least me understand. I know they already know what they’re talking about. Shall we take a look at two Two? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah, 

Nick Cagle

Let’s, let’s read it through and discuss a little bit. Is that okay? Alright. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

That which has made them drunk, has made me bold, would have quenched them, have given me fire park peace was the owl that shrieked the fatal bellman, which gives the Sterns to goodnight. 

He is about it. The doors are open and the surfed grooms do mock their charge with snores. I have drugged their PTs that death and nature do contend about them, whether they live or die. Who’s there? Oh, EK I’m afraid. Oh, that’s you, huh? 

Mark Lawson

That’s alright. Who’s there? Who’s 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

There? I was reading it. It was funny. 

Mark Lawson

I’m sorry. No, I, I I enjoyed it. Who’s there? What ho 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Ek I’m afraid they have awake and is not done. The attempt and not the deed confounds us park. I laid their daggers ready. He couldn’t miss, he could not miss him. Had he not resembled my father as he slept, I had dunked my husband. 

Mark Lawson

I have done to deed. You still not hear a noise? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I heard the owl scream and the crickets cry. Did you not speak? 

Mark Lawson

When 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Now as 

Mark Lawson

I descended, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I 

Mark Lawson

Park Who lies at the second chamber? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Donald Bain. 

Mark Lawson

This is a sorry sight. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

A foolish thought to say a sorry sight. 

Mark Lawson

This one did laugh and sleep and one cried murder that they did wake each other. I stood and heard them, but they did say their prayers and addressed them again to sleep. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

There are two lodged together. 

Mark Lawson

One cried God bless us and do and the other. As they had seen me with these hangman’s hands listening their fear. I could not say amen. When they did say, God bless us, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Consider it not so deeply. 

Mark Lawson

But wherefore, could I not pronounce Amen? I had most need of blessing and amen stuck in my throat. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

These deeds must not be thought after these ways. So it will make us mad. 

Mark Lawson

He thought I heard a voice cry. Sleep no more Macbeth does murder, sleep. The innocent sleep. Sleep that knits up the raveled sleeve of care, the death of each day’s life. Sore labor’s bath balm of hurt minds. Great nature’s second course Chief nourisher in life’s feast. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

What do you mean 

Mark Lawson

Still? He cried. Sleep no more to all the house gloms at murdered sleep and therefore co or shall sleep. No more macbeth’s, just sleep. No more. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Who was it that thus cried? I worthy fame. You do unbend your noble strength to think so. Brain sickly of things. Go get some water and wash this filthy witness from your hand. How did you bring these daggers from the place? They must lie there. Oh, carry them in. Smear the sleepy grooms with blood. 

Mark Lawson

I’ll go no more. I’m afraid to think what I have done. Look on again. I dare not 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

On form of purpose. Give me the daggers. The sleeping and the dead are, but as pictures to the eye of childhood that fears a painted devil. If you do bleed, I’ll guilt the faces of the grooms with all for it must seem their guilt. 

Mark Lawson

When is that knocking? What is it with me When every noise appalls me? What hands are here? Huh? They pluck out my eyes. 

Will all great neptunes ocean wash this blood clean from my hand? 

No, this my hand will rather the multitude in his seas in Carine making the green one red. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

My hands are of your color. But I shame to wear a heart. So white. I hear a knocking at the south entry. I hear a knocking at the south entry retire. We to our chamber. A little water clears us of this deed. How easy is it then? Your constancy have left you unattended. 

Hak more knocking. Get on your nightgown lett occasion. Call us and show us to be watchers. You not lost so poorly in your thoughts 

Mark Lawson

To know my diet, were better. Not know myself. Wait, duning with thy knocking, I would without coast 

Nick Cagle

Once again, we’re all finished. You know, beautifully read. That was beautifully read. You guys are at performance pace and we’re gonna do that horrible thing for an actor where we take it way back Slowly. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Actually, 

Nick Cagle

I was gonna say, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

it’s so hard to not do this. That speed. It’s, and like I, I mean I haven’t real, I’ve looked at it to make sure I knew what I said, but I haven’t said it out loud. And it’s like, oh, like stop. You don’t have to do that. 

Gideon Rappaport

Well, There’s a good reason for it in the verse and that is right. They’re all interlocking lines. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah. 

Gideon Rappaport

And I wanna say something in a minute about that. The succession of one word line one word, parts of the line after line 15. 

Nick Cagle

Go go ahead with that, Gideon, go ahead. 

Gideon Rappaport

Okay, well we were going to look at the end of the previous scene and the end of the previous scene is two seconds of rhymed couplets. 

While I threat. He lives words to the heat of deeds. Two cold breath gives and then hear it not Duncan for it is a nail that summonsed to heaven order to help. So it’s very closed up, organized, calm and, and direct and quiet. And the whole speech has been quiet. Macbeth’s talking about not wanting the earth to speak and prevent him from doing the deed. Now he comes in and he is done. The deed and the verse has exploded in chaos. 

Did you not speak when now as I descended, I har who lies Donald Lane. So it’s like back and forth and, and, and chaotic. And the, the, the verse is therefore reflecting the moral condition. He goes into it thinking it this can be done and, and win with his ee success. And now he’s feeling conflicted and horrified and chaotic insight as well as we’re gonna see the whole world turns chaotic outside. So that, so that’s why Megan’s absolutely right. It’s really hard to slow that down because it’s Macbeth himself is so shifting in his mind from one thought to another quickly. And she’s trying to respond to each thing as it comes. 

And then she tries to take over those responses and goes out and he’s, he’s in his state untutored by her. 

Mark Lawson

Hmm. 

Gideon Rappaport

That was a a long way of saying you’re absolutely right. It’s hard to slow it down. 

Nick Cagle

Gideon, could you, would you mind giving our audience a quick summary of what happened in the scene before this real fast? 

Gideon Rappaport

Oh Yes. Macbeth comes in planning. They’ve decided that he’s gonna go ahead and kill the king. They decide that together in the previous scene we did. 

Mark Lawson

And 

Gideon Rappaport

then in act two, scene one, we get Banque or short meeting with Banque. He goes out and Mcbe Macbeth has a soliloquy in which he sees a dagger pointing him and leading him towards doing this deed. And he has a whole speech about what it means and how he’s like a wolf. And he’s like, he’s like tarquin creeping up on lucre and, and witchcraft and murder and so on. And he begs the world. It parallel to Lady Macbeth earlier. She has begged the darkness to cover up what’s going on so that nobody can cry, hold, hold. And he now wants the worth, the, the earth to be silent so that nobody interrupts this deed that he’s about to do. 

So it’s very quiet and focused and intentional and he, and, and that then produces this great contrast with how they are speaking in this scene. 

Nick Cagle

Excellent. Thank you so much. So we opened this scene after what? After that. And we have lady alone on stage. It says Enter Lady Macbeth. Can you read her first little section for us, Megan? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Sure thing That which has made them drunk has made me bold. Would’ve quenched them, have given me fire park peace. It was the owl that tricked that fatal bellman, which gives the Stearns goodnight. He is about it. The doors are open and the surfed grooms do mock their charge with snores. I have drugged their PTs that death and nature do contend about them whether they live or die. 

Nick Cagle

Wow. What a great little Halloween speech. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

It is. 

Nick Cagle

It’s so fantastic. I love it for this time of year. You read it so beautifully, Meghan. I wanna record it in like haunted house, the Disneyland and have your voice doing it. When we enter, 

Mark Lawson

I laugh. 

Gideon Rappaport

Do you, do you see how the verse inverts the growth of our knowledge? So instead of starting with I’ve drugged their PTs, she starts with them drunk. Me both. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah, that’s what I was saying. 

Gideon Rappaport

She’s right in the middle of, of her sense of what’s going on, but she doesn’t end the speech without explaining what that means. 

Nick Cagle

And it’s interesting though. It’s, it’s a little Shakespeare downplays the pronouns in that first part. I, I was looking at the verse a little bit because so many times people wanna punch the them and me, but if you read the verse, I think it, you know, he’s pushing those down and bringing the other words out a little bit more. That which has made them drunk have made me bold. 

Gideon Rappaport

Yeah, I think, I think you can do it a little more in the first one than the second one. But you’re absolutely right. The, the stresses of the verse are not on the pronouns. 

Nick Cagle

That line says a lot about the character too, doesn’t it? I mean, right off the bat there’s a little description of her comparing herself with, with these others, these weak sort of, you know, they haven’t managed her. So she’s had, she’s she’s had a couple of cocktails then, right? Yeah. She’s had some wine, 

Gideon Rappaport

But also she’s awake. She’s supposed to be asleep and they’re supposed to be awake and she’s inverted the order of nature. She’s awake, she’s a watcher and they are knocked out. 

Nick Cagle

Megan, what do you think she means when she says hark peace? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Well, she hears something and then she tells herself to 

Nick Cagle

Shr it off to calm Down. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah, it was just the owl quiet. 

Nick Cagle

So she’s excited and she’s stable. She’s stabilizing herself a little bit. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I dunno. I mean, I think she’s like, she’s got a, she’s a little bit on edge because she knows what’s happening. Like she is like, the noises are making her jumpy more than I think she, I don’t know if I would use the word excited. 

Nick Cagle

Hmm. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

But yeah, she’s got a little, there’s a little edge to it. ’cause someone could come in at any moment and I don’t think that’s necessarily gonna like, terrify her, but it’s, it’s enough to make her ah, and then who like, you know, chill out. Don’t, don’t, don’t, you don’t need to scream ’cause an owl cried, you know. But 

Gideon Rappaport

an owl is, it’s funny, not just an owl. An owl is also the, the omen of death and 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Al harbinger of doom 

Gideon Rappaport

Harbinger of fatal 

Nick Cagle

bellman. She says 

Gideon Rappaport

Not just doom, but executions for crime. 

Mark Lawson

Oh, I didn’t know that. 

Nick Cagle

It’s funny. It it, it hearkens back to Romeo and Juliet when they’re discussing the Lark and the 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Nightingale. Mm. 

Nick Cagle

But in opposition to that, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Right? I get the owl and the cricket. 

Nick Cagle

Yes. The sternest goodnight. And he’s about it. So she’s still talking about the owl now. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Oh, I think He’s about it is 

Nick Cagle

McBath. Oh, he’s, she’s talking about 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Macbeth then. 

Nick Cagle

He’s about it. I see. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Because then she’s like, I’m, I’m visualizing what? 

Nick Cagle

Yeah, 

Gideon Rappaport

he’s doing it. He’s doing it now. 

Nick Cagle

The doors are open and the surfed grooms do mock their charge with snores. Fantastic. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

That they Do. 

Gideon Rappaport

So it means two things. He, they’re mocking Duncan who’s their charge. They’re imitating him by snoring ’cause he’s asleep. But they’re also mocking the, the, their duty. They’re, they are charged to stay awake and guard the king and instead they’re snoring. So they’re making a mock of their very duty. 

Nick Cagle

And what does she mean when she says, I have drugged their 

Mark Lawson

PTs? 

Gideon Rappaport

PT is a, well, let me tell you exactly what it is. It’s kind of sweetened. Sweet Pastd is hot milk poured on ale or sack having sugar grated biscuit, eggs and other ingredients boiled in it, which goes all to occurred 

Nick Cagle

Amazing 

Gideon Rappaport

Eggnog, 

Mark Lawson

Essentially 

Gideon Rappaport

Their nightcap drink. 

Nick Cagle

I have drugged their eggnog. 

Mark Lawson

Yeah, 

Gideon Rappaport

He’s drugged them. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

It even scams 

Gideon Rappaport

And knocked them out. So 

Nick Cagle

the death and nature do contend about them whether they live or die. Fantastic. And then here he comes, he comes barreling in right after. So that’s, so he’s gonna come right on top of her line, the end of her line there. Right? 

Gideon Rappaport

He’s saying that he’s not in yet. He’s saying that off stage. 

Nick Cagle

Oh, okay. 

Gideon Rappaport

He’s within, within means behind the something 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I also had read earlier that some of it, he might be on stage, but it’s a convention that she doesn’t see him yet. So that like the within is obviously editorial like you could see. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah, that’d be fun. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

You know, at the top of the stairs or something. And she’s, 

Nick Cagle

That’d be fun. Yeah. These are the moments, the, as a director that I am, that is difficult with this medium because it’d be so much fun to play with Mark coming in the second story of something and where the au I love moments where the audience can see something, but the character on stage can’t, those are beautiful. And that’s 

Mark Lawson

confirmed Horror moments. 

Gideon Rappaport

Sorry, that’s confirmed by the fact that she goes on talking to herself and us. 

Nick Cagle

Yes. 

Gideon Rappaport

Not, not immediately to him. 

Nick Cagle

Oh, that’s, that, that’s, that’s wonderful. Mark, can you say your line and then Megan, can you jump in that little second section for us? 

Mark Lawson

Megan, do you wanna lead me in with that so we can get that set? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Sure. I have drugged their PTs that death and nature do contend about them, whether they live or die. 

Mark Lawson

Who’s there? What? Oh, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I lack, I am afraid they have awake and is not done. The attempt and not the deed confounds us park. I laid their daggers ready. He could not miss them Had he not resembled my father as he slept, I had dunked my husband. 

Nick Cagle

Oh, that’s interesting. That’s a interesting personal moment she has there, isn’t it? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah. 

Nick Cagle

Had he not resembled my father as he slept, I had done it. 

Gideon Rappaport

Absolutely. 

Nick Cagle

Oh, that’s interesting. We get a little insight into her. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Well, I think it’s an interesting little like moment too, because she does come undone that like she’s not as invincible as she is pretending to be with the forces of darkness. 

Nick Cagle

Excellent. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

And there’s still something in there. 

Mark Lawson

There’s 

Gideon Rappaport

A, there’s a, there’s a sliver of humanity left in her 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Right. And that, and that’s end up driving her insane. 

Mark Lawson

What? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah. Yeah, 

Nick Cagle

Yeah. And it was important. It’s interesting that Shakespeare took the time to let us know that though, you know, it’s, it’s important for the character development and that the audience know that, you know it. When I hear her, I’ve all, every time I hear her say that it, it creates a little bit of that humanity within the character. It makes the audience, you know, care about her a little more. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah. 

Gideon Rappaport

Identify with the capacity, 

Nick Cagle

Identify Yeah. 

Gideon Rappaport

The capacity of someone who has that ability to have plotted this horrible murder. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Right. 

Gideon Rappaport

And of course it calls up the whole structure of the universe because the king is a in the macrocosm what the father is in the microcosm of the family. 

I just wanted to say, Megan, that I think you need to hit confounds. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Okay. 

Gideon Rappaport

More because she doesn’t expect to be confounded. But this, this is what would confound it if we try and don’t succeed. Okay, then, then we’re in trouble. 

Nick Cagle

Let’s, let’s go from I laid their daggers ready and then through the, the next little section to the bottom or to line 20 if we could, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

And 20 for you is I heard the owl scream or where’s 20 for you? 

Nick Cagle

20 is, this is a sorry site. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Okay. Yeah. I have the folder numbers and I’m not sure what happened. I laid their jaggers ready. He could not miss ’em. Had he not resembled my father as he slept, I had dumped my husband. 

Mark Lawson

I have done the deed. They still not hear a noise. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I heard the owl scream and the crickets cry. Did you not speak? 

Mark Lawson

When 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

did not you speak, excuse me. 

Mark Lawson

When 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

did not you speak? 

Mark Lawson

When now as 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I 

Mark Lawson

Descended. 

Nick Cagle

That’s tricky. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

That’s tricky. Let’s try it again. No, I, let’s try it again. 

Nick Cagle

Just because 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I was trying to fix myself The, 

Nick Cagle

it’s so on top of each other, those lines that, you know, it’s tricky. 

Gideon Rappaport

So just think of it as a iam pentameter line. It’s one line. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah. I don’t think that was the issue. It was because I was trying to go backwards and Mark was trying to follow. So kind you 

Gideon Rappaport

While we’re stopped. Can I just say that my husband question mark, that question mark in the ardent is a exclamation point and I think they’re interpreting the question mark. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Right. 

Gideon Rappaport

The editor is interpreting as, so it could be either one. You can keep it as a question, but if you would prefer it can also be, oh, there you are. 

Mark Lawson

Or, oh shit, you, you scared the hell outta me 

Gideon Rappaport

Or 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah, yeah, 

Mark Lawson

Yeah. 

Nick Cagle

Well, I mean, she sees is that, is that the first moment that she’s laid eyes on this mess? Right? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Right. 

Nick Cagle

And, and and what he’s covered in blood. He’s hands are covered in blood, his hands and his sleeves. And so, I mean, her reaction could definitely be to the sight of him and all the things going through her head. Think about it because this is what they planned. She sees him and it’s obvious, you know? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Right. 

Nick Cagle

What his next line is that he’s done the deed. Mm. Right. It’s also interest. Let, let’s just take it back and read through that, that beautiful section one more time and we’ll keep talking about it. Can we go from I laid their daggers again, Megan, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I laid their daggers ready. He could not miss them. Had he not resembled my father as he slept. I had dunked my husband. I 

Mark Lawson

have done the deed. Just thou not hear a noise. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I heard the owl scream and the crickets cry. Did not you speak 

Mark Lawson

When? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Now 

Mark Lawson

As I descended, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I 

Mark Lawson

Who lies at the second chamber? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Donald Bain, 

Mark Lawson

This is a sorry sight. A 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

foolish thought to say a sorry sight. 

Nick Cagle

Let’s stop right there. There’s so much to unpack in just this little section already. Can Gideon, can you explain to our audience who Donald Bain is? 

Gideon Rappaport

Okay. Donald Bain is the second son of King Duncan, whom Macbeth has just killed. The el eldest son is Malcolm. He’ll, he’s destined to inherit the throne. And the second son is younger brothers Donald Bain. So the, he’s lying in the chamber next to the king. 

It’s the, there’s a hierarchy of chambers. The highest is the king’s room, and the next best room is the two sons of the king, or at least one of them. So that’s Donald Bain. So 

Nick Cagle

I see. And, and did Donald Bain and Malcolm both escape 

Gideon Rappaport

Later after they find that after their father’s been killed? They both escape and they go in different directions so that somebody will survive whatever is attacking them. 

Mark Lawson

Hmm. 

Gideon Rappaport

One goes, Donald Bank goes to Ireland and Malcolm goes to England. 

Nick Cagle

Interesting. Okay. So she sees him and he says, I have done the deed. Did so not hear a noise. That’s interesting that he asked that question. He wants, he wants to know if she heard his actions. A, a scream or 

Gideon Rappaport

Screams. They’re both hearing things including real things. One was the owl screeching and then they say, no, it was just the owl. But it’s also that their minds have been invaded by the, the horror of what they’ve done. And so they’re also maybe hearing things and they keep both of them say, hark, what did I just hear? I don’t know. 

Nick Cagle

It it get, I get a sense from the language. There’s the, they’re, it feels like they’re looking behind them constantly. It feels like there’s a sense of paranoia going on with the when now. 

Gideon Rappaport

Right. 

Nick Cagle

And I can hear that in your reading as well, you guys. 

Yeah. Let, let, let’s keep going. We’re gonna go back over this and break this down in, in in further detail. But l let’s get a summary over the feeling of the whole scene and then we’ll go back to the top and, and really attack each lines. Where, where did we just stop? 

Gideon Rappaport

This is, this is, sorry. Site line 20. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah. Can we start from, can we start from there? Mark? This is a sorry site and go on a little bit. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Before we do that, I have a quick question. Gideon, what I’d be curious what you think when she says they’re two lodged together. She, she knows this already or like she knows Donald Bain and I presume Malcolm are sleeping in the same room because She’s like, 

Gideon Rappaport

I don’t know if they’re, we don’t know that they’re sleeping in the same room, but there are at least what, what line are you? Let me get back to Here. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

It’s, it’s just past. Yeah, it’s just past that. It’s basically like he keeps going on about Donald Bain in the room with the, with the, the sleep. And she 

Gideon Rappaport

Right 1, 1, 1 cried murder and one did laugh in his sleep. And she says, well that’s okay. There are two lodged together in that room. So it’s fine that you heard one and then the other. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Okay. Yeah. 

Gideon Rappaport

It’s just 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

such a weird thing to say. 

Gideon Rappaport

It’s not fine that they’re saying that one’s laughing and one’s crying murder. But Macbeth has said in their sleep, so that doesn’t panic her. Yes. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Okay. 

Gideon Rappaport

And then he says, one cried God bless us and I man the other as if they had seen me with these things. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Right, Right. 

Gideon Rappaport

And so then get drawn from there. So she’s just, she’s trying to explicate this experience they’re both having of hearing these noises and every, he says, did you not speak? Or she says, did not you speak 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Right. 

Gideon Rappaport

And he, He when now Doesn’t even answer no. He just says, oh listen, there’s more noise. 

So it’s chaos. It’s just all chaos. 

Nick Cagle

Let’s go ahead and read it through and see where we can find, I feel like one of these characters has more stability than the other. 

And, and it would be nice to see a little bit of that opposition happening between the two of them, you know, so that both of you aren’t picking up on the exact same energy during the scene. You know what I mean? Let, let’s try to read down a little bit and see what we can find with that. 

Mark Lawson

This is a sorry sight 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Foolish thought to say a sorry sight. 

Mark Lawson

There’s One did laugh and sleep and one cried murder that they did wake each other. I stood and heard them, but they did say their prayers and addressed them again to sleep. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

They’re two lodged together. 

Mark Lawson

One cried, God bless us and ah, amen. The other, as they had seen me with these hangman’s hands listening, their fear, I could not say amen when they did say, God bless us, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Consider it not so deeply. 

Mark Lawson

But Therefore could I not pronounce Amen. I had most need of blessing and amen stuck in my throat. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

These deeds must not be thought after these ways. So it will make us mad. He 

Mark Lawson

thought I heard a voice cry. Sleep no more Macbeth does murder, sleep. The innocent sleep. Sleep that knits up the raveled sleeve of care, the death of each day’s life. Sore labor’s bath balm of hurt mind’s. Great nature’s second course chief nourisher in life’s feast. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

What do you mean 

Mark Lawson

Still? It cried. Sleep no more to all the house gloms hath murdered sleep and therefore co or shall sleep. No more Macbeth shall sleep. No more. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Who was it that thus cried? I worthy fame. You do unbend your noble strength to think so brain sickly of things. Go get some water and wash this filthy witness from your hand. How did you bring these daggers from the place? They must lie there. Go carry them and smear the sleepy grooms with blood. 

Nick Cagle

Go. Okay, stop there please. Wow, there’s a whole bunch going on right here. I really liked what you were doing though. I could see, I could see the balance between the characters. I feel like she’s trying to hold this together a little bit off them, off the ledge. It yeah, that’s what it seems. And it, there are, it seemed from your reading, Megan, when you said there are two lodge together, it was an explanation and yeah, it’s like it makes sense, you know? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah. 

Nick Cagle

That’s why this is happening. She can see that he’s unhinged and she’s really good at holding him together when he gets like this, it seems this may be a thing between the two of them. You know, I could see him coming home from battle and being like, do you know what he said to me? And she’s like, well, you know, said, you know, they balance each other in this way and it’s not, you know, a lot of times an audience thinks that Lady Macbeth is manipulating Macbeth throughout these things. And, and she may be to an extent, but I feel like she’s, she’s holding him together the whole time. He comes on and says, I saw these witches and they told me this and dah, dah dah, dah. And she’s like, this is great and let me tell you why, you know? And I really like that balance. 

She feels like a rock in his, in, in, in the two of their relationship in a way. And I’m just noticing this, you know, for the first time right now because of you’re wonderful reading. 

Can we, can we take it back one more time? Do you have any notes before we read it, this section again, Gideon? 

Gideon Rappaport

No, I didn’t make any notes. 

Nick Cagle

And can I just hear, and this is gonna be too math, but just for an exercise and for the show, mark, can we do an Italian run through with your lines? And Megan, can we make your, can we slow yours down more than you want to? 

And 

Mark Lawson

You have to remind me what you mean by an Italian Run through. 

Nick Cagle

Unless, I mean, just go really fast. 

Mark Lawson

Ah, copy. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah. You know what I mean? I mean put push the panic of these lines a little too far and then we’ll find this balance between them. But I really want to, I want to hear, see what, what happens with that a little bit. 

Mark Lawson

This is a sorry site, A foolish thought to 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

say a sorry site. 

Mark Lawson

There’s one did laugh and sleep and one cried murder that they did wake each other. I stood and heard them, but they did say their prayers and address them again to sleep. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

There are two lodged together. 

Mark Lawson

One cried. God bless us and amen. The other. As they had seen me with these hangman’s hands listening, their fear, I could not say amen. When they did say, God bless us, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Consider it not so deeply. 

Mark Lawson

Wherefore, could I not pronounce Amen. I had most need of blessing and men stuck in my throat. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

These deeds must not be thought after these ways. So it will make us mad. 

Mark Lawson

We thought I heard a voice cry. Sleep no more Macbeth does murder, sleep. The innocent sleep. Sleep the knits up the rabbit sleeve of care, the death of each day’s life’s sore labor’s bath balm of hurt minds great nature. Second, co chief nourisher in life’s feast. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

What do you mean 

Mark Lawson

Still? He cried. Sleep no more to wall the house glams at murdered sleep and therefore co or shall sleep. No more Macbeth shall sleep. No more. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Who was it that thus cried? Why were fame you do unbend your noble strength to think so brains sickly of things. 

Go get some water and wash this filthy witness from your hand. 

Why did you bring these daggers from the place? They must lie there. Oh, carry them and smear the sleepy grooms with blood. 

Mark Lawson

Don’t go no more for I’m afraid to think what I’ve done. Look on again. I dare not 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

In firm of purpose. Give me the daggers, the sleeping and the dead are but ass pictures. Just the eye of childhood that fears a painted devil. If he do bleed, I’ll guild the faces of the grooms with all for it must seem their guilt. 

Nick Cagle

Okay, let’s stop there. That, that was interesting. Did you guys, did you guys feel that energy? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah, for sure. 

Nick Cagle

A little bit. I it’s, it it’s a little bit, it’s too far. But if, if you find the places that we need to tap the, the energy between the two of them, it is very, it very clear with that. I I really, I really like the direction that both of your went in right there. That, that, that felt interesting to me. Gideon, 

Gideon Rappaport

I agree that it went too far because she’s too nice. She’s also, there’s also a vein of anger in her that he’s not living up to the promise of what they’ve planned. So it’s, there’s gotta be a little bit more of a edge there, I would say. But I just want say two things in line 42 still or line 40 still. It has still it cried. Sleep no more still means always 

Mark Lawson

Sure. 

Gideon Rappaport

Rather than continuing. And then, 

Mark Lawson

Oh, okay. 

Gideon Rappaport

It, it means always it didn’t stop. It kept going. It and it keeps going. It thought it’s like it was always doing it. 

Mark Lawson

Hmm. 

Gideon Rappaport

I I would say it kept doing it, not it, it continued up through now, but it, it’s continuous period. And then the other note was at line 54, Megan bring out painted a little bit. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Okay. It’s, 

Gideon Rappaport

it’s, anybody would fear a devil, but a merely painful 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Devil is 

Gideon Rappaport

Not so scared. For sure. Yeah. That’s it. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

And I have have to say that it’s helpful. 

Nick Cagle

Oh, sorry, go ahead 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Megan. When No, just thinking, talking about like where it’s helpful to have some pace for Macbeth when he goes on the sleep rant. I feel like it’s hard for me not to interrupt him sooner unless he’s moving it with some pace. ’cause he’s, ’cause he is like spinning out. 

Nick Cagle

Mark. What? Let’s talk about, what do you think about the Amen section? He, he seems to really be upset about this. 

What do, what do you think? Because yeah, so much about that. 

Mark Lawson

I mean, I think it’s layered. I think it’s partly he’s aware that he’s just crossed the, you know, that he’s just damned himself. So I think that’s one I I think that’s kind of got multiple implications. 

And then I think, I mean I think that’s the deepest, but I think on top of that, he’s going, did I actually hear that? 

Is this, you know, is my, am I already like, is my brain already fractured? I thought I could do this and then deal with it over time. But I’m, I’m immediately questioning my own sanity. 

And also the idea of faith. I mean, I, we said last week, I don’t know that he has much real faith left. And I think this is the, his his sense that it’s all gone at this point. You know that I, 

Nick Cagle

Yeah, he, this this is the action that is going to 

Mark Lawson

Dan now 

Nick Cagle

and yeah, there’s no return from this. His is his fear. Yeah, I understand what you’re saying. Are you guys getting a little feedback on somebody’s mic? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah. Does somebody have their phone nearby? 

Nick Cagle

Oh, maybe 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

A lot of times that’s a, that’s a a a signal thing. 

Mark Lawson

Hmm? 

Nick Cagle

I put mine on airplane mode. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah, mine’s on airplane. 

Nick Cagle

Okay, then maybe that’ll help. I heard that. Yeah. I would say, and so it, it stuck in his throat. He, he couldn’t say amen when they did say, God bless us. 

I see. 

Mark Lawson

Yes. I, I, yeah, I think, yeah, it’s just a, he’s glitching for lack of a better word. 

Nick Cagle

And then she says, and then she says, who was it that, who who cried? What are you talking about? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Right. Well the sleep no more stuff. ’cause he goes in, he goes from just the like, oh, they, they, they said their prayers and went back to sleep to somebody is now I’m hallucinating somebody talking. She was like, who? 

Nick Cagle

And then what, what does she say? Can you read that little section from, who was it that cried to the sleepy grooms with blood? Megan? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah. 

Mark Lawson

Where is that? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Who was it that thus cried worthy fe You do unbend your noble strength to think so brain sickly of things. Go get some water and wash this filthy witness from your hand. Why did you bring these daggers from the place? Does she see, just see the daggers then like it’s such a, it’s, is it it, you know, I has he, I guess she would’ve seen them before. 

Gideon Rappaport

He would’ve, She would’ve seen them, but she didn’t notice because he is what? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Because He’s so covered him, you And the bloody hands. 

Gideon Rappaport

Now she thinks, oh wait a minute. The dad, 

Nick Cagle

You brought the murder weapon in here. 

Gideon Rappaport

Yeah. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Right. Because she’s, she’s referencing his hand for the first time and like, oh God, you brought them with you. 

Gideon Rappaport

Right. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

But go get some water and wash this filthy witness from your hand. Why did you bring the daggers from the place? They must lie there. Go carry them and smear the sleepy grooms with blood. 

Mark Lawson

I’ll go no more. I am afraid to think what I’ve done. Look un look on again. I dare not 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

In firm of purpose. Give me the daggers. The sleeping and the dead are about his pictures. Does the eye of childhood that fears a painted devil? If he do bleed, I’ll guild the faces of the grooms with all for it must seem their guilt. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah. She really lets him have it right there, doesn’t she? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah. 

Nick Cagle

You know what? And I, I like, I like the development of how you’re, you’re doing that section, Megan, where, where you know you’ve got a progression from who was it that thus cried to finding the murder weapon and then getting sick of his weakness in a way. You know, you Mark, can you, can you read, I’ll go no more for us. And then Megan go into the next section. 

Gideon Rappaport

Yeah. Mark, before you do, can I just say the antithesis is think and look. Yeah. I’m, I I’m so afraid to even think what I’ve done. I can’t 

Nick Cagle

Oh, 

Mark Lawson

to look at it, right? Yeah. I’ll go no more. I’m afraid to think what I have done. Look on again. I dare not 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

In firm of purpose. Give me the daggers, the sleeping in the dead or, but his pictures to the eye of childhood that fears a painted devil. If he do bleed, I’ll guild the face of the grooms with all for it must seem their guilt. 

Nick Cagle

Excellent. What, what does in infirm of purpose mean? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

That he is 

Nick Cagle

What what does she mean by infirm there? Gideon? 

Gideon Rappaport

She means that he is wavering. He is, he’s collapsing under the pressure. 

Nick Cagle

I see. 

Gideon Rappaport

His purpose was, they, they all set this up before, right? They both set this up before. So his purpose was to kill the, the, the king then smear the grooms and leave the daggers with the grooms to make it look like they’re guilt. And he didn’t do that. He killed the king and was so horrified. He came out, he’s hearing these voices. 

She’s accusing him of not fulfilling, not sticking to the plan, basically. 

Nick Cagle

Can you guys do me a favor just for fun? We, we run through these so fast. Can we hear Mark, can you go from I’ll go no more and take like a nice beat after every full stop. And Megan, then can you go into the next section and do the same thing so we really get a sense of what each line is saying. 

Just to hear it once, 

Mark Lawson

I’ll go no more. I am afraid to think what I have done. Look on again. I dare not 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

In firm of purpose. Give me the daggers, the sleeping and the dead are, but as pictures is the eye of childhood that fears a painted devil. 

If he do bleed, i’ll guilt the faces of the grooms with all for it must seem their guilt. 

Nick Cagle

You know, it, it’s so, it’s, it’s tough with this scene because it’s a fine line. You know, it has to move quickly, but it can’t be rushed, you know, so it, it’s kind of like you have to really try to nail each one of these little pictures and then continue a flow at the same time. And that’s, that seems like the trick that we’re gonna have to the challenge of, of this. Let’s keep going and read a little further if you don’t mind. 

Mark Lawson

You can just get to the end. It’s all points. Is that knocking how with me whenever noise it pulls me, my hands are here. Huh? They pluck out my nice will all great neptune’s oceans wash this blood clean from my hand? No, this my hand will rather the multitude in a seas in Carine making the green one red. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

My hands are of your color. But I shame to wear a heart. So white. I hear a knocking. I did it again. I put, I put these in a funny order. I hear a knocking at the south entry retire. We to our chamber. A little water clears us of this deed. How easy is it then? Your constancy has left you unattended. Hark more knocking. Get all your nightgown less occasion. Call us and show us to be watchers. Be not lost. So poorly in your thoughts 

Mark Lawson

To know my deed. Were better. Nope. To know my deed. Were best not know myself. Wake Duncan with th knocking. I would though co 

Nick Cagle

Let’s break that section down a little bit. Now is that knocking? What is the knocking? 

Gideon Rappaport

It’s McDuff knocking on the gates of the, of the castle because he’s been called to wake the king up early and he’s fulfilling his duty. 

And they, and every, because they all got drunk the night before. It’s taking a long time for the porter whom we will see soon to get to the door and let him in the gate. 

Mark Lawson

And it’s also the unknown, right? Like it’s, it’s macbeth’s like it’s old scratch at the door coming for me. 

Gideon Rappaport

Yes. And it’s Macbeth himself knocking on the gates of hell. 

Nick Cagle

That’s interesting too. 

Gideon Rappaport

Yeah. 

Nick Cagle

The 

Gideon Rappaport

Porter will, the porter will make that analogy. 

Nick Cagle

Thank you. That’s very interesting. That’s it. Mark, can you read your little section for us one more time and 

Mark Lawson

we’ll Talk? I can, and I’m gonna go for something that I haven’t gone for yet that I promised myself I would, that I just haven’t done yet. Excellent. Whence Is that knocking? How whiz with me when every noise appalls me, my hands are here. Huh? Pluck out my eyes. 

Will all great neptunes oceans wash this blood clean from my hand? 

No, rather this my hand will the multitude and a Cs in Carine making the green one red. 

Nick Cagle

So Gideon, this, these hand references are going back to a speech that, that he had before. Is that correct? The, is this a dagger? He’s looking 

Gideon Rappaport

Yeah. He’s, he’s, he’s got, he’s seen the dagger in the previous scene and he compares it to the one he’s holding in his hand, getting ready to kill the king. Now she’s taken the daggers now and he’s just seeing his bloody hands. And mark, I think when you say what hands are here, you mean your own, you’re looking at them again. They pluck out my, my own bloody hands pluck out my own eyes. I don’t think I, I think looking around makes us think there’s some hands elsewhere. 

Mark Lawson

Fair. I I, because I feel like he’s already, he plays that beat a couple times. It also, to me, the paranoia in this scene is when it’s so volatile internally that things start to manifest. You know, like you feel like somebody’s actually touched you from behind. You know, you’re scared shitless. 

Gideon Rappaport

That’s true. But at the same time, when you’re paranoid like that, you get fixated on a symbol. You get fixated on one thing. 

Mark Lawson

Mm. 

Gideon Rappaport

And you keep reinterpreting it and looking at again and again to try to figure out the implications. And I think that’s what he’s doing. 

Mark Lawson

That’s interesting. Yeah. It’s my, it’s like, it’s like schizophrenia. I, 

Nick Cagle

Yeah. Are you in the same, can you read the, the last section from after Clean my hand to the end Mark? 

Mark Lawson

Yep. With that line? 

Nick Cagle

We’ll all yeah. Just so we can hear it in your voice. 

Mark Lawson

Will all great Neptunes Ocean wash this blood clean from my hand? No, this my hand will rather than multitude in a Cs in Carine making the green one red. 

Nick Cagle

And now Gideon, you sent us a, a wonderful page from your book on this section. And I don’t wanna save time. I wanna hear you talk about this line a little bit so that our audience can also hear what you have to say about it. 

Gideon Rappaport

Okay. Well, first of all I wanna say Mark, clean, clean for my hand means two things. Cleaning the hand of blood, but clean means also completely, entirely wash away the blood completely from my hip. So it’s a, it’s a double thing. 

Nick Cagle

The de as Well, 

Gideon Rappaport

what I say in it comes in the chapter of my book. The first chapter is called What’s So Great about Shakespeare. And one of the things I talk about is the use of poetic language. And I use this speech as an example of how Shakespeare uses poetic language in a very complex way if you analyze it to get across the experience of the meaning. And what he’s doing. I’m, I won’t go through all the details, but what he’s doing here is he’s, he’s expressing just a kind of human grunt ha and then the image of the metaphor of his own hands, because they’re bloody with the king’s blood plucking out his own eyes, which is a horrible image because, because what he’s done is so filled with horror. 

Then he asks himself, will the whole ocean wash this blood away? Asking whether anything physical later Lady Macbeth’s gonna say, A little water clears us of this deed. And it’s wrong. You can’t be cleared of the deed except by repentance, which they never do. So they get stuck in their despair and that’s what the end of the plane is about. But anyway, Shakespeare combines this mythological image, Neptune’s ocean. So the part of the implication is will the pagan gods be able to clear this guilt? The blood on the hands is the same as means guilt. 

And he said, and then he says, no, this my hand will rather. And then he uses these two great Latin words, Latinate, Latin derived words, multitude in a Cs in Carine. He is actually inventing the meaning of in Carine. And, and ever since the use of this word here, it means to turn something red. But he’s invented the verb from, from the root, which means flesh. But, and then he goes to make, so my hand will rather turn the seas red but the udin, the seas in Carine in those big Latin words. And then the last line is all Anglo-Saxon words. Very simple. One syllable making the green one the ocean red. And so my point is that whether you’re thinking in universal abstract terms, which usually find expression in Latin or Latin derived words, or whether you’re thinking in the most personal, intimate down home, familiar terms, like one syllable, Anglo-Saxon words, the same idea is prevailing. 

And so he has nowhere to go. He, he can’t go to Neptune and, and multitudinous in, in Carine. And he can’t go to green. One red, he can’t escape either the, the, the, the transformation, the, the blood on his hands, which is his guilt, turns the whole world for him into this bloody horror. Horror for him. 

Nick Cagle

Absolutely Amazing. So do you it, do you think that was the first time that word in Carradine was used? 

Gideon Rappaport

I think so in that sense, yes. 

Nick Cagle

Awesome. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I love that. It also sounds like incarnation, like there’s like other words it sounds like, that it makes you think of 

Gideon Rappaport

Absolutely. Right. And the what, what’s going on there is the blood is incarnating the guilt. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Amazing. I had a question for you. 

Nick Cagle

Another like 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

language thing, Gideon. ’cause I’ve heard people also say making the green one red like a, like a, like a uni, a uniform red. And I wonder if you have like an opinion on, on the likelihood of one or the other. 

Gideon Rappaport

I don’t think it sounds as natural, but you could certainly do it that way and it wouldn’t change the meaning, so, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Right, right. 

Gideon Rappaport

It’s possible that Shakespeare had both in mind. 

Nick Cagle

You know, mark, I would, I would play for me a little bit when, when you hear single syllables in these things, maybe take a little bit more time with them. 

Mark Lawson

Yeah. 

Nick Cagle

You know what I mean? That’s an old trick. You know, that I, it seems to clarify some things and fast paced scenes in Shakespeare. You know, if you slow down some single syllables, it’ll make it, it might make, make it easier for us to hear 

Mark Lawson

it. It is so funny you say that. ’cause I was speaking, I was, I had to leave the house the other night. It was one of those moments where I was like, I gotta get outta here. And I took a walk and it was dark already and I was just muttering this under my breath. 

And the thing that I didn’t really go for, that I wanted to go for was I just slowed this whole section down. And like, almost as though it’s not a possession thing, this is where my horror brain clicked into my Shakespeare brain. But it’s as though, like, this is now his new personality is I’ve killed the king and I am, you know, a demon. And each word is like red rum. 

Nick Cagle

I think there are moments for that. I think there are moments for that. 

Gideon Rappaport

I’ll just reinforce that by saying that the verse in line 62 Bubu Bubu. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah. 

Gideon Rappaport

Either way. The way Megan suggested, or the other way the green one red or the green one red. 

Mark Lawson

Either 

Gideon Rappaport

way it’s three stresses in a row and that slows it down. 

Nick Cagle

There’s a couple of those that are happening throughout here and we can, we can look for them, but I think that we could find those moments when he does that, when he, when chaser gives you a line full of single syllables, I think it’s okay to take a little bit more time with those. 

Mark Lawson

Yeah. 

Nick Cagle

Or you could really just milk it. You know, They hit hard. 

Gideon Rappaport

Those 

Nick Cagle

Everyone knows. That’s what I’d do. 

Mark Lawson

Well, I mean, when you watch that Ian McKellan version, 

Nick Cagle

He really does it, man. 

Mark Lawson

You got his voice. You can do it. But yeah, you wanna do this whence, is that knocking again? 

Nick Cagle

Let’s, let’s, no, let’s go on, let’s go on to lady. We’re gonna come back through this. Yeah. Let, let’s hear what lady has to say. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

My hands are of your color. But I shame to wear a heart. So white. I hear a knocking at the south entry retire. We to our chamber. A little water clears us of this deed. How easy is it then? Your constancy has left you unattended. 

Ark more knocking, get on your nightgown last occasion. Call us and show us to be watchers. Be not lost So poorly in your thoughts 

Mark Lawson

To know my deed to our best, not know myself, wake dunking with thy knocking. I would though, 

Nick Cagle

It’s interesting because the way I keep thinking back to the very first speech in the scene we worked on last week, the very first word of that speech is if, if it were done when tis done, he was never sure about killing the king. 

Mark Lawson

Mm. 

Nick Cagle

And now that the act is done, it seems that he’s devastated by it. 

Gideon Rappaport

Horrified. 

Nick Cagle

Horrified. 

Gideon Rappaport

He even wishes. Very cool. Duncan, could he even wishes Duncan could be awakened, but the only thing he never does is repent, which is the only thing he could do. And that, that he will not and cannot do. I would say, mark, that the knot, you, you read it Really? I ambi, which was good. But I would say that the, to know my deeds were best, you could, you could make the knot a third, another stress. In other words, three more stress in a row and even bring it out more, I would say To know this would be better not to know that 

Mark Lawson

Best, not to know myself 

Gideon Rappaport

And know thyself, you know, is this ancient wisdom inscribed over the, the oracle at Delphi. And it meant two things. It meant to the world be humble before the God know that you’re just a human being and not a God. But to Socrates and Plato, of course, it meant investigate what is the reality and the truth and the meaning of, of what you are and what the world is. And Macbeth is renouncing both kinds of knowledge. The, the, it’s interesting the self knowledge of humility and the, and the kind of scientific knowledge of what his place is in the universe. 

Mark Lawson

Hmm. 

Nick Cagle

I like it when she says, get on your nightgown. 

Gideon Rappaport

Yeah. 

Nick Cagle

She’s really, she’s really still holding it together though, isn’t she? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah. You know what 

Nick Cagle

I mean? She’s executing the plan, 

Gideon Rappaport

But she can’t, she can’t seem to, she can’t seem to really dispel this idea that he’s losing it or has lost it. It’s, it nothing. She, everything she says is trying to do what you’re describing. And that’s true, but it’s not working. He’s, he’s still fighting himself and she can’t correct that because they will not give up the motive of all of this, and therefore it can’t be corrected. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah. Megan, could you read the last line of your last speech right there for us in the audience? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Be not lost so poorly in your thoughts, 

Nick Cagle

Right? Yeah. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Is that What you’re 

Nick Cagle

Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. That’s really, that’s, that’s interesting. There’s, there’s, you know, the, it’s love, it’s, it’s lovely in a way. It’s, you know, she, I i I wish that I could stage some of this stuff, you know, because I, IW would she, would she be actually holding him? Would she be holding his his face at that point? Would, would she be a, would she say it sternly? Would w Like if you were on stage, w what would your choice be on that line? Megan would, would you, would you deliver it? Like, what would your tactic be? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I think it’s shares snap out of it. 

Nick Cagle

It’s from 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Moonstruck, you know, like, it’s like you have to go. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah. Yeah. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

It’s, it’s ’cause like, I think the, the time there was time before to sort of be like you, when she calls him worthy saying, you noble, she uses nice words previously, but at this point she’s like, go up the fucking stairs. You know, like they’re at the door. 

Gideon Rappaport

And can I add to that a little, my perspective is that with the murder, the two of them have been split apart. That is to say not only all the hierarchical relations in the world are been, have been ruined by this murder, but the marital relation has also been So the, so each is following his or her own kind of trajectory. And they’re trying, she’s trying to reconnect them. And he’s unre connectable in a sense, so that they’re, they’re veering apart and, and they veer into, he goes into very self-conscious despair. And she goes into the, the madness of despair. And they both become suicidal at the end. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah. It’s, it’s interesting. Mark that your last line, wake Duncan with thy knocking it, it’s not, he is not fully defeated yet though, is he? It he still, there’s a command in that line that seems, what do you think? 

Mark Lawson

Huh? I hadn’t thought about it that way. I just think it’s regret. I just think he’s just, just boiling. I mean, there’s gallows humor. I think it’s, I think it’s, 

Nick Cagle

Oh, you’re 

Mark Lawson

Knocking to wake the dead, you know? Well, 

Gideon Rappaport

I would, I now could suggest. 

Mark Lawson

Yeah. Well, yeah. And I think he’s like, realized a joke that he is un unwittingly made un you know, he just couldn’t help himself. And then 

Nick Cagle

he Gallows humor. I really like that. That’s very 

Mark Lawson

Interesting. You know? Yeah. The idea of like, it is just like when the phone keeps ringing, when you’re trying to focus on something like now what you know, and then you realize, oh, this is my fault. 

You know? 

Nick Cagle

I would say, yeah. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Right. And essentially like, I have no more power. I can’t make him. Maybe you can. Yeah. 

Mark Lawson

Oh yeah. 

Nick Cagle

Ha I would bow cuts. Yeah. That’s interesting. 

Mark Lawson

Yeah. Like, sure, if you’re gonna bang on the door and that’s gonna resurrect him, then please by all means. But you’re also, you are drive me a little nuts. 

Nick Cagle

And that last, that last line, those are single syllable. So you could, you don’t have to make that choice, but you, you could chop those up a little bit. 

Mark Lawson

I Would No, yeah. 

Nick Cagle

If you so choose or you know, 

Mark Lawson

Well, it’s a walk off line. It’s, you know. Yeah. 

Nick Cagle

You’re probably, you could, it could, you could be walking off while saying those. You could say it and then exit. You know, there are different choices that you could make. 

Mark Lawson

Yeah. 

Nick Cagle

But think about it. And it will inform in your performance. Let’s go back and Gideon and I will turn our cameras off. Let’s read it again and see what we’ve learned. Is that okay? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah. 

Nick Cagle

All right. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

That with that which has made them drunk, has made me bold. What has quenched them has given me fire ark peace. It was the owl that shrieked the fatal bellman, which gives the Stearns to goodnight. He is about it. The doors are open and the surfed grooms do mock their charge with snores. I have drugged their PTs. The death and nature do contend about them, whether they live or die. 

Mark Lawson

It was there. What? Oh, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Ak. I am afraid they have awake and is not done. The attempt and not the deed confounds us. Ha I laid their daggers ready. He could not miss him. 

That he not resembled my father as he slept. I had done my husband. 

Mark Lawson

I have done the deed. Does thou not hear a noise? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I heard the owl scream and the crickets cry. Did not you speak 

Mark Lawson

When? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

No. 

Mark Lawson

As I descended. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I, 

Mark Lawson

Well I said the second chamber, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Total pain. 

Mark Lawson

This is a sorry sight. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

A foolish thought to say a sorry sight. 

Mark Lawson

There’s one to laugh and sleep. And one cried murder that they did wake each other. I stood and heard them, but they did say their prayers and addressed them again to sleep. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

They are two lodged together. 

Mark Lawson

One cried. God bless us and ah, amen. The other, as they had seen me with these hangman’s hands listening, their fear, I could not say ah. Amen. When they did say, God bless us, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Consider it not so deeply. 

Mark Lawson

And Therefore, could I not pronounce Amen. I had most need of blessing and amen stuck in my throat. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

These deeds must not be thought after these ways. So it will make us mad. 

Mark Lawson

We Thought I heard a voice cries. Sleep. No more Macbeth does. Murder, sleep. The innocent sleep. Sleep that knits up the raveled sleeve of care, the death of each day’s life. Sore labor’s bath balm of hurt minds. Chief in great nature’s second course Chief nourisher in life’s feast. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

What do you mean 

Mark Lawson

Still it cried. Sleep. No more do all the house gloms has murdered sleep and therefore corridor or shall sleep. No more Macbeth shall sleep. No more. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Who was it that cried, thus cried. I worthy fame. You do unbend your noble strength to think so brains sickly of things. Go get some water and wash this filthy witness from your hand. 

Why did you bring these daggers from the place? They must lie there. Go carry them and smear the sleepy grooms with blood. 

Mark Lawson

I’ll go. No, I’m afraid to think what I have done. Look on again. I dare not 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

In firm of purpose. Give me the daggers, the sleeping and the dead are, but as pictures is the eye of childhood that fears a painted devil. 

If you do bleed, I’ll guild the faces of the grooms with all for it must seem their guilt. 

Mark Lawson

When is that knocking? I always with me. When every noise appalls me hands are here, they pluck out my noise. 

Will all great neptunes oceans wash this blood clean from my hand? No, this my hand will rather the multitude in a seas and carine making the green one red. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

My hands are of your color, but I shame to wear a heart. So white hear a knocking at the south entry retire we to our chamber. A little water clears us up to deed. How easy is it then? Your constancy has left you unattended. Mark more knocking. Get on your nightgown. Let occasion call us and show us to be watchers. Be not lost. So poorly in your thoughts. 

Mark Lawson

To know my deed for best not know myself, to know my deed. For best not know myself. Wake duning with th knocking. 

Nick Cagle

Geez, you guys, 

Gideon Rappaport

You guys are so good. Oh, 

Nick Cagle

That was so good. 

Gideon Rappaport

Scary, scary. 

Nick Cagle

Good. You guys really need to do this show. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yes, please. 

Nick Cagle

It’s crazy. 

Mark Lawson

I’ve Been wanting to do this show since I was 13. I Was gonna say, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I’ve like the two 

Nick Cagle

Of you. Really? I hope somebody’s watching this that’s gonna produce this for goodness sakes. Please, please. I’m about to. 

Mark Lawson

Come on. Come on. 

Nick Cagle

That was really clear. You know, I, it was really, really clear. And Mark, you found the moments to slow down a little bit and when you did it, it it was effective. You know, that’s the thing. It’s fast, fast, fast. And you gotta find the right beats to chill it out and it hits the audience like a hammer. It, it really does. Megan, you had a beautiful balance between, you know, she’s upset with him, but she has to nurture in a way. And those moments are really coming along as well. And, and the nurturing moments, I feel she pulls back because she can’t, she wants to slap him. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Right. 

Nick Cagle

There is a hierarchy thing going on that she can’t do that. You know, like there’s, there’s a certain level that she has to stop even though she doesn’t necessarily want to. And that underlining pressure is like a, it, it’s like a teapot, you know, that’s, that’s ready to explode. And, and it’s very, very, ’cause we feel it too. Very, very clear. 

Gideon Rappaport

I I, I just wanna add to that. It’s not just the hierarchy that’s preventing her, but the force of his apparent losing it. Like all this energy that he’s, it’s it’s a whirlwind and she’s hard to touch it. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah. I feel like you don’t know. It’s like when somebody is, you know, spinning out and you’re like, what can I do? Like, you can’t push too hard or they’ll go off the deep end. 

Gideon Rappaport

Right. 

Nick Cagle

Excellent. Work with your hand too, mark. Oh, thank you. That was a, that’s a clear, it was a very clear choice. I really liked what you’re doing. What, what’s interesting is now we can get technical with the camera work if you want to. 

There are moments when you’re delivering it to the camera and moments when, you know, I know this is hard because we’re not memorized, but when I feel like his focus is not on her all the time, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like a lot of the stuff he would be playing out towards the audience and, and, and she, she seems, I don’t know, what do you think, Megan? She seems more locked into what he’s doing. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah, I think she has, there are a couple of spots I feel like where she’s like, okay, like when she takes, she does the fears of Painted Devil and then it’s like, okay, then I’m gonna say what I’m gonna do if you do bleed, I’m gonna blah, blah, blah, blah. 

Nick Cagle

Yes. I love your Work right there that she’s okay now 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I’m, you know, ’cause otherwise she’s like, why would she be telling him? She doesn’t need to tell him that? ’cause that’s what he should have done. But he didn’t, you know, so she’s like, okay, I have this idea about this thing that I’m gonna do that’s gonna, you know, but other than I feel like other than that basically is like, it’s pretty much, you know, and then the heart that the knocking starts coming in at the end. But other than that, she’s really like, Where are you? 

Nick Cagle

Yeah. So, so when we’re, when I, so I took the time to not usually I’m looking at the script and listening to you guys, but I watched what you were doing on camera at that moment. So, and, and Mark, when you’re, when you’re addressing the camera, it looks like you’re talking to Lady Macbeth. 

Mark Lawson

Okay. 

Nick Cagle

Which is interesting. But I, I didn’t get, I got the feeling from, from you Megan though, even though you played it a little bit off camera, that, that you were focusing on him. I saw, yeah. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Which is, 

Nick Cagle

which is interesting that it’s kind of opposite. But I I you 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

can, Well, part of it for me is that he’s on the left side of my screen and 

Nick Cagle

Oh yeah. So I 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

put my text under him, you know, so, and we’ve often talk, don’t look in the camera. 

Nick Cagle

It’s, it’s a tough medium to do these things on Zoom. Like I say, the, these could totally work as Zoom calls though, it always cracks me up. You could be like, did you do it 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Right? Your camera’s not on 

Mark Lawson

Turn volume down. So Nick, what do you, what do you want to experiment with then? When I’m directly addressing? Or you want it into the, into the camera like this and then I can, 

Nick Cagle

You know what I, I’m not sure yet. Okay. We’ll have to play with that. We got a couple more weeks I think next week. I’m gonna, I’m gonna send you guys the, the scenes that we’re missing. I, I think that for our audience watching, it might be interesting if we look at the letter that lady reads. And if we look at the speech is, is, is this a dagger I see before me to inform these scenes a little bit more for those of us that, that, for those that are watching Gideon, do you have some notes on that performance? 

Gideon Rappaport

Yeah, I just, I have very few, but that was so good. I mark, when you say hark at line, whatever it is, eight 19. 

Did you not speak when now as I descended, I I I have not yet heard the word hark. 

Mark Lawson

Ah. That’s how I very, I I made it more like stage whispery. So you may not have 

Gideon Rappaport

Okay, that’s fine. Because you turned your head away And 

Mark Lawson

Yeah, I was shooting it over there like, 

Gideon Rappaport

Okay. That, that’s fine. It’s just that I didn’t hear it. 

Mark Lawson

Yeah, you Wanna hear it. 

Gideon Rappaport

You got 

Mark Lawson

It. 

Gideon Rappaport

I’ve seen an editor, when you get to listening their fear at line 25, 6, 7, 28, I’ve seen editors and I, I did it in mine. I didn’t mean to, ’cause I didn’t look at the folio, but listening to the comma after hands and then the period period after fear. 

Mark Lawson

Ah, yep. I’ve got a period here. Yeah. 

Gideon Rappaport

But I, but Arden has it the other way. So I’m giving you the choice. Listening. Their fear could go after as if they had seen me with these hangman’s hands listening to their fear. They see that’s a creepy image. Child listening or you could say listening to their fear. I could not say amen. It can work either way. 

Mark Lawson

Mm. 

Gideon Rappaport

Line 48. Oh, I just wanted to, they must lie there maybe. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I know, I know. I did it and I marked it while I said it. I was like, 

Gideon Rappaport

it’s just you, You hit lie. And he 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Didn’t do it. I know it. I was like, oh, that’s such bad Shakespeare. 

Gideon Rappaport

That’s fine. 

Nick Cagle

The other thing, What, what do, what do we wanna hit there? Just to clarify, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

They must lie there. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah, They must lie there. Okay. 

Gideon Rappaport

Yeah. It’s Lie. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Why’d you bring the dard from the place? They must lie there. 

Gideon Rappaport

Yeah. Right next to the groups. Okay. And then the last thing was just to point out not to change anything. That there’s a play on words. Ild, the faces of the grooms with all for it must seem there. Guilt gilding means covering with gold. Right, right. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Gold leaf. 

Gideon Rappaport

Right. So, so guilt and guilt. The guilt must seem like it’s covering them and not us. It’s just a Little clever that Shakespeare, Shakespeare can’t resist things like that 

Nick Cagle

Lord. 

Gideon Rappaport

And it’s, it’s not clear that there’s a way to do it that gives both double meanings. But in any case, I just wanted to point it out. 

Mark Lawson

I Just, I have to interject with something. Gideon, I, last week I was watching Ian McKellan do a workshop at the RSC. 

Gideon Rappaport

Yeah. 

Mark Lawson

From like 19 whenever, like when he was doing the production and he goes on for 12 minutes breaking down tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow. And just the layers upon layers of imagery that he’s keeping track of in his head. It’s just one of the most mind boggling things I’ve ever watched as an actor. And to then watch him do it and and hear him actually deliver on all these layers, it’s in, it’s incredible. 

Gideon Rappaport

It’s one of the great joys of teaching the play and then having people acted or do it or see it because they realize that they’re getting things that levels that they didn’t get and they wouldn’t get if they just heard it once through, you know, they’d get the surface story. 

So, and he, he was phenomenal at that. 

All all, all the greatest Shakespeare actors were extremely knowledgeable about how the verse works and the layers of meaning. And when they’re not, you can tell there’s a kind of passionate intensity, but they’re not, they’re not plumbing the depths of the, of the story. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

That’s part of the reason I love teaching Shakespeare coaching monologues. ’cause I’ll be working on something that I’ve, you know, said for 20 years and then all of a sudden something will drop discover. Oh, oh, that’s cool too 

Gideon Rappaport

Constantly. This is, this is why I took up the specialization in Shakespeare. I said I’m Shakespeare’s gonna wear me out before I wear him out. And it’s true. I have never taught this play without discovering something or any play for that matter. 

Nick Cagle

Gideon, can, can we scan something real fast? One of Megan’s the very Megan, your very last speech, my hands are of your color, but I shame. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yes. 

Nick Cagle

Could, could you, could you read that down to deed For me? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Sure. My hands are of your color. But I shame to wear a heart. So white. I hear a knocking at the south entry retire we to our chamber. A little water clears us of this deed. 

Nick Cagle

Is there, is there some stuff going on with the verse there that’s a little bit different? 

Gideon Rappaport

Oh yeah. Just listen to the, to the unstressed syllables in 65 and the contrast with line 66. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah, let’s, let’s, let’s scan that out for our audience. ’cause I noticed something, something happening with, with, with the meter that he Shakespeare’s doing something here. 

Gideon Rappaport

So the first of the four lines ends on a stress and then we have an unstressed and an unstressed and then a stress. So it’s feminine line, I mean masculine line, feminine line, feminine line, masculine line what feminine and masculine endings. Plus in line in, in 64 and five we have to wear a heart. So white I hear a, so we have an extra syllable at the south baba bubu. So we’ve got a, a what’s called a ric foot, and then apondi babu bum, and then two unstress syllables entry re tire. We two are chamber again ending in an unres syllable. So what we have is this, this mixing up of the meter. 

And then what comes ha what happens in line 66 B-B-B-B-B-B-B right back to the solid meter, which is where her conviction lies. The knocking. And 

Nick Cagle

Is that, is that on? So is that on, how easy is it then? Or, or where does it come back? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

A Little water clears above its deed. 

Gideon Rappaport

Yeah. A little water clears us of this deed. 

Nick Cagle

Oh, so that’s a resolution then? 

Gideon Rappaport

Well, yes. And it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s just stronger because that’s where she really is. The knocking the south entry, the hypothetical retiring to our chamber. All of these are, are elements of the unknown coming into their plan. Right. 

Nick Cagle

And just for, for our audience watching, what do you mean by a masculine line or a feminine ending? 

Gideon Rappaport

Oh, Oh, I just mean the, the a a feminine ending is a is where the line ends on an unstressed syllable and a masculine ending is where the line ends on a stress syllable. So just to make it tadda, we’ll say the masculine ending is, and the feminine ending is. 

I see. So knocking is a feminine ending 

Nick Cagle

Knocking chamber. Yeah. 

Gideon Rappaport

Chamber is a feminine ending, but shame and deed are masculine endings to the lines. And Shakespeare is playing on our, our sensual response to the sound of the lines as well as in the, on our understanding of the meaning of the words. 

Nick Cagle

So as an actress, Megan, is, is there an adjustment to be made in that section because of that meter? Or how would you play it? How would 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

You play it? 

Nick Cagle

I 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

think it does it on its own. I don’t know that I, I don’t think you necessarily have to play it up at all. I think it all, I think, I think it just comes off orally. 

Nick Cagle

I’m sorry, I should you just say, as an actor, we’re all actors, right? Like I, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I Like, as an mentor, I, yeah. Go. Oh, sorry, go on. I thought you were asking something. Sorry. 

Nick Cagle

No, No, no. Yeah, IIII I’m asking you like, it like what choice you would make, you know, in that section basically, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I think for me, I don’t feel like she knows that she’s broken something yet. Like the what? She comes out and says, my hands are of your color, but I shame to wear a heart so white. She’s still in. Like 

Gideon Rappaport

That’s right. Those are 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Purposeful mode. 

Gideon Rappaport

That’s iic Those are all IIC until the knocking. 

Nick Cagle

And then so the knocking maybe, maybe it’s a sense of fear that that, that that changes that I’m just, I’m trying to figure out why, why Shakespeare would’ve messed with the verse a little bit right there. And if he had an intention. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Oh, I think he definitely did. Yeah. I just don’t think that I, I don’t think that the actor has to do anything to make the audience feel unsettled. I think the knock and I, the other thing is, and that’s always a question I have for Gideon, is where do we, do we fit the knocking into the, into the pentameter at all? Do we 

Nick Cagle

Oh 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

yeah. You know, there’s, there’s space in there. There’s stuff that happens. 

Nick Cagle

There is, that is part of, is that part of the meter? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

You know, know is 

Nick Cagle

The knock right. 

Gideon Rappaport

Could you keep, it doesn’t, you know, It doesn’t look like the part of the meter in this line because I left you on, 

Nick Cagle

It’s so musical. 

Gideon Rappaport

It’s, it’s fascinating. 

Nick Cagle

The knock could be like, and this is the musical version of Macbeth. The knock would be a, a piece of music, you know, it would start 

Gideon Rappaport

And it would start around heart. So white. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Right, right. 

Nick Cagle

And I know that both of you’re musical theater actors too. Yeah, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

and it’s interesting ’cause like the Folger has the, the, that line split where like I hear to where a heart so white and then there’s knock and then it’s a new line. I hear a knocking and then it’s a new line after that. And which was weird to me. I feel like that’s ’cause that’s why it, ’cause I just copied and pasted it and stuck it in another document. And the same with have left you unattended harmore knocking. There was like another line. They, they put a carriage return in there. Like they put space for some of these knocks. I don’t know whether that’s useful at all. But it, but I think regardless of whether you try to fit it in or if it’s coming over, it is already making things feel off kilter. 

So I don’t feel like, I feel like as an actor you’re just like, you don’t know as a human, you don’t know you’re broken until it’s too late. Like she comes back different, but she doesn’t know she’s different yet. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah. Let’s, can, can you do me a favor and just read that speech for us so that the audience can hear all these things we’re talking about right now? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Sure. 

Nick Cagle

Without the knocks, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Right? My hands are of your color. But I shame to wear a heart. So white. I hear a knocking at the south entry retire, we to our chamber, a little water clears us of this deed. How easy is it then your constancy have left you unattended. Park more knocking, get on your nightgown, less occasion. Call us and show us to be watchers. Be not lost so poorly in your thoughts. 

Nick Cagle

It’s fascinating. Shakespeare does the work for you, doesn’t he? 

Gideon Rappaport

Absolutely. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

And 

Gideon Rappaport

I, 

Nick Cagle

you Don’t have to do a lot as an actor. It’s already there in the language. 

Gideon Rappaport

It’s There. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah. And 

Gideon Rappaport

I think, I think the, the, the, the unstressed syllable endings of lines are all about knocking twice. And, and watchers is hypothetical, but the other lines are she a anything that takes her away from the forward motion of the plan sounds like it’s unstressed syllables and sounds like mysterious interruption of the plan. And she keeps going back to the plan. So yeah, retire we through our chamber, a little water clears of the de solid. How easy is it then left you unattended hark more knocking. 

Nick Cagle

Yes, there’s the 

Gideon Rappaport

Stress syllable. 

Nick Cagle

Even e mark, even in Macbeth’s last line, wake dunking with thy knocking. I would thou kutz that line scans to five. But there’s a, there’s a a strange beat with at the end of knocking. 

Gideon Rappaport

That’s right. It’s an, there’s a, 

Nick Cagle

there’s something. Could you read that just your last line for us, mark? Sure. 

Mark Lawson

To know my deed, to know my deeds. Were best not know myself Wake Duncan with thy knocking. I would thou k 

Nick Cagle

You hear that? 

Mark Lawson

Yeah. There wants to be a little to dump the dumb. 

Nick Cagle

There’s an off balance musically there that’s happening. 

Gideon Rappaport

Right. 

Nick Cagle

That’s really 

Gideon Rappaport

extra stress syllable in knocking. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah. Amazing. Amazing. 

Mark Lawson

It Always relates back to me, to the inner life of, you know, in Lady Macbeth’s case, the, her loss of confidence in this moment, you know, everything, the, the meter always relates back to if there’s a drive forward, we’re confident as soon as it starts to break apart, you know, we’ve, we’ve lost the course. I mean, I know Gideon, that’s what you were saying, but I, it’s always funny when I have to kind of like hear it and then say it and it internalizes as as true. You know what I mean? It’s, when you’re on the strong meter, it’s, it’s leading you forward. And it’s, and it’s that frustration like in life, like when you’re leaving and you forgot your keys and then you forgot your other thing and you gotta go back into the house and you keep trying to get back onto your flow. 

Gideon Rappaport

And, and just To frustrating Just to build on that, all of the unstressed syllables and all of that knocking, it’s three times knocking in those two speeches. All of those are coming from the outside. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

All the, the end stopped. 

Gideon Rappaport

Solid iambic lines are coming from their intention and all the, all the interruption of that is coming from the outside world. And that is like a, it’s a, it’s a mini version of the actual movement of the play. 

Mark Lawson

Ah, 

Gideon Rappaport

They do this thing and the world gangs up on them to expel them and and spit them out. 

Nick Cagle

I get the feeling when I, when I hear you guys performing it, I, the image in my head was, ’cause I was just watching the Olympics and you know, when, when a gymnast is on the balance beam and sometimes they’ll almost slip and they have to pull it back together. It it, it has a feeling of that that, that happens often in this show where the two characters are driving through and then they almost fall and then they continue to drive. And 

Gideon Rappaport

That happens in the, in the banquet scene too with the banquet’s ghost. Same, same thing. She’s trying to hold it together and he keeps Being. 

Nick Cagle

That’s a, that’s a fascinating scene. I hope somebody works on that scene. 

There’s so much happening. I always wish we could do the whole play with these things. 

Gideon Rappaport

Well, Nathan, yeah, we’ve done it before. 

Nick Cagle

Right? 

Gideon Rappaport

Not, not in the present structure, but we have done a few online like that. You could probably petition Nathan to work it out. 

Nick Cagle

So Megan, in, in the beginning when she comes out, she’s, she’s left the party. Is this, how, how fresh has she left the party? Does she have a glass of wine in her hand? Yeah, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I feel like she, she just left it. I feel like she worked out the thing with the grooms before and I think she’s, she, she leaves the party and they’re all nodding over their wine and she’s the only one who’s still like super alert. I mean, that’s sort of the way I’ve always, She 

Nick Cagle

she could still, she would might be in a nice dress. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. I don’t feel like there’s been time and I might, I mean I’m, it’s been ages since I’ve read the whole thing, but I always see this like she’s walking up being like those, those guys, these men Yeah. Who always, who are in charge, who are all supposed to be like, you know, and they’ve been overcome by this alcohol and I’m, and I can sit here and I’m great. And then, oh, what was that noise? You 

Nick Cagle

She does that a lot in this scene. I’m sorry. Go. 

Gideon Rappaport

I get, I know why you’re, I wanna know why you’re saying she’s coming from a party. I think everyone’s gone to bed in this scene. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Right? Right. I guess that’s 

Gideon Rappaport

she’s From the party in the previous scene we did. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Right, Right. 

Mark Lawson

Or She No, I think, or are they talking about drinking? What? The groomsmen, not the groomsmen, but the, the valets. Duncan’s valets. Maybe she had a little nip on the bottle on the way to poison them or to, you know, knock ’em out. 

Gideon Rappaport

The point the that she’s, she is 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Right because she came for dunkins asleep. Right. 

Gideon Rappaport

They, They have, they have been at a party where she poisoned, she drug them and she had her drink. But now everyone’s gone off to bed and they’re, they’re supposed to be by this time asleep because Macbeth in the previous scene, everything’s quiet by now everybody’s asleep and he doesn’t want anything, anything to wake them up so that it prevents him doing the murder. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

So. 

Gideon Rappaport

Right. We have to think of her as, as waiting for him to come back and say it’s done and 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Right. 

Gideon Rappaport

But she’s still on fire because of, of the drink. 

Nick Cagle

That’s what I’m trying to find 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Out. Is there, is there a any kind of additional meaning to bold other than just the way we think of it? Is it, is there like a wakefulness to it or, or anything like that? Or is it just the way we think of it now? 

Gideon Rappaport

I think it’s the way we think of it. She, it it’s extension of what she asked the evil spirits for 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Right. 

Gideon Rappaport

Earlier on unex me here and make me, fill me with cruelty. So I think she’s just confirming that she’s still 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah. 

Gideon Rappaport

Committ to this thing. Cool. 

Nick Cagle

Basically, I’m just trying to ask you to think about what her energy is when you deliver the first couple of lines. You know what I mean? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Right. 

Nick Cagle

Just it it would what, think about where she’s come from, how long she’s been in this room, what, you know, how, how nervous she is. Just, just to inform the, the technical speed and pace of how you deliver the first few lines of that. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Right, right. 

Nick Cagle

It, it was all very beautiful the way that you did it. And I really love the mood of the owl and the fatal bellman and I really just, I really liked that little speech at the top. It’s so creepy at 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Fantastic. This is a cool one. 

Nick Cagle

I really, it’s like later on and She leans into it, It reminds me later on. Macbeth has a speech, air the bat have flown where he talks about That’s so halloweeny for me. I feel like there’s a witch on a broom flying over his head here. You know, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Halloween, 

Gideon Rappaport

Our Halloween is as much the fruit of this play as the other way around. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah, indeed. 

Gideon Rappaport

So many images from Halloween build on this play. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah, absolutely. The witches and the, you know, it’s yeah, so much. There’s a, there’s so much of Macbeth in the Harry Potter series as well. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Oh, 

Nick Cagle

all over it. There’s just li there’s basically lines from the show all over that we, I just read it with my kids and I was like, this is all Macbeth. There’s so much happen. 

Mark Lawson

Oh, I mean the third film, they literally sing something we get this way comes. 

Nick Cagle

That’s right. That’s right. But the, to which I finally, I was watching that again and I realized they’re little puppets and those kids are doing such a good job working those puppets and seeing that song totally off base. 

Mark Lawson

But like bravo. 

Nick Cagle

Alright, let’s, let’s look back at, I’m kind of going from the top through now and we know what Macbeth’s energy is when he comes in. 

I mean, it, it, it, what do you think it’s a high energy though, mark? Or is it, is it shock and quiet or would you deliver it with, with speed and volume? What do you think? 

Mark Lawson

I think it’s, I think it’s, I think it’s breathless. I think it’s, I think it’s tight and breathless until he’s with her and they get to, when he starts talking about what he thinks he heard and, and, and he starts to just relax enough that it all starts to really flow out of him. I think it, up to this point, it’s, it’s, it’s still tight from having done the deed. And then I think it’s a few lines 

Nick Cagle

In. It’s interesting to note that that line are all single syllables as well. I, I done the deed, done the deed. 

Mark Lawson

Think it’s, 

Nick Cagle

I dunno if that, I think 

Mark Lawson

in theater, I think it’s a quiet moment. I think it’s a frankly a little bit of a jump scare moment for her when he, when she discovers him. You know, even though he’s, he’s just kind of crept into the chamber with her. And I think it, it is almost that like lights, you know, lights are on nobody’s home kind of. 

I’ve done the deed 

Gideon Rappaport

Okay. But I wanna say that he’s hearing things. 

Mark Lawson

Oh for sure. 

Gideon Rappaport

Who’s There, what ho did down not hear a noise? Right? And then har and then, and then this is a sorry site when he sees his hands. So, 

Nick Cagle

So do we think Gideon is, is who’s there? What ho be, because he hears Lady Macbeth 

Mark Lawson

In in my feelings about it. I think it’s, I think he’s already, he’s already hearing things and I think as he’s coming in that’s, he’s hearing this is the reason why he asked her who’s in the second chamber. ’cause he thinks he hears something in there. 

So I don’t think it’s, I think that connects to her answer of Donald Donald Baines in the second chamber. 

Gideon Rappaport

Yeah. And he’s been saying, I heard these voices, they cried murder and, and God bless us and amen. And sleep no more. He is heard voices shouting, sleep no more. So he’s, I think he’s saying, who’s there telling me to that I’m gonna sleep no more. And then, oh, okay. And then did you not hear a noise? Did did you hear the owl? Did you hear these voices? 

Mark Lawson

Yeah. 

Gideon Rappaport

I think it’s chaotic and 

Mark Lawson

I think It is chaotic. I I would just counter that. I think he’s also very, 

Gideon Rappaport

I’m not saying don’t do it the way 

Mark Lawson

Oh Yeah, yeah. No. Of the conspiracy that they’re involved in now. And it has to be, the proximity of it has to be very tight. It has to be very, like, it’s like a conversation right here. 

Nick Cagle

And, and that’s what I’m doing as a director. I’m, I’m encouraging you guys to make a specific choice about your pacing at the top of the scene. You know what I mean? Ma make a choice on how, a clear choice on how fast you want it to be. What the energy is and who you’re talking to when you’re asking who’s there what, who, you know, I’ve seen it done both ways. I’ve seen it done where he hears a sound from Lady M and directs that to her. And I’ve seen it where he’s hearing sleep no more over and over again in his head. Either way can be clear to an audience. You just have to make the choice, which it is, you know, as an actor. 

And then, and same, same with you Megan. Really, really make a choice at, at the top of the scene what obviously, you know, what she’s been doing right before she decides to speak when she’s revealed. And I so wish that, you know, that’s the be I love theater when, when lights come up in a scene and we’ve, and a character is first revealed and then we get a sense of what they’ve been doing or what’s going on or what, you know, that it’s just, it’s something that only exists on a live stage. I think that that, that immediate excitement of seeing this live actor up there, who knows? It’s, 

Gideon Rappaport

I I I would say that she walks in, it’s not, the lights come up on her. She walks into the room and she’s just come from seeing that these grooms are snoring. Like she’s reporting this, the doors are open and the circuited grooms do mock their charges. So she’s walked by that room and seen that her drugs worked and then she walks in here waiting for him to, to appear from the murder. So I, I think there’s enough, there are enough clues so that we know where she’s been. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

And I think too, I’ve always, I’ve for whatever reason have always seen this in an, in-between space, like in a hallway or like, I always see it with like a staircase and the, and their ’cause. ’cause they’re not in, they’re not in a safe place. They’re not in their room. 

Gideon Rappaport

Right. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah. Because we have to retire, we to our chamber. And he says, and she said, did you say something? And he says, well I descended. You know, like 

Nick Cagle

I just feel like there’s, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

they’re, and it, they’re not in a safe space. And I think part of her being a little drunk is as, as as she’s restless that she’s that like, you know, like that she’s not like sitting quietly somewhere combing on her hair, hoping he comes back, that she’s on the move a little bit and you know, and she’s visualizing everything. I think she’s reporting, but she’s, I think she’s also going over herself ’cause she’s saying he is about it and she’s like, okay, I saw this is what I saw, but the reason I’m going through it is I’m imagining him going and doing this thing. 

Gideon Rappaport

Exactly Right. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

And then, and then she’s like, oh my God, I’m afraid he hasn’t managed to do it. ’cause I’m hearing, hearing some kind of a, a voice or whatever. And 

Nick Cagle

Yeah, I think it’s important for us to, in the medium that we’re currently using, to give our audience of the people that are watching this, an idea of, of these kinds of spaces and these kinds of entrances and exits and what’s happening there so they can better imagine what’s going on when they watch you guys doing this wonderful work. 

That’s fantastic. I really like that. The, i the idea of not being in a safe space helps inform the entire pacing and energy of the city. Because at any moment, and then there is that paranoia happening. There is that thing that any moment someone can walk in on, on the two of them in which he’s covered in blood, he is, you know, he, he is got the murder weapons in his hands and 

Gideon Rappaport

Then the knocking starts, right? 

Nick Cagle

Yes. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

And I think there’s a difference between hearing scary sounds when you are in your room together and scary sounds when you are not in a place where someone can’t walk in, 

Gideon Rappaport

Right? 

Nick Cagle

Yes. Yes. And that’s gonna give us that sense of fear as the audience. The same sense of fear that the characters are feeling. 

Excellent. Excellent. Well we only have a couple minutes and what I’d like to do before we end is I’d like to read both scenes all the way through. 

Go back to scene, the go back with no explanation because I think that the work that we did today is gonna inform the previous scene so much. 

Mark Lawson

Okay. 

Nick Cagle

Break legs 

Mark Lawson

If it were done. When is done then we, well we done quickly. If the assassination can tremble up the consequence and catch with his ee success that, but this blow might be the be all in the end all here. 

But here upon this bank and al of time, we jump to life to come. But in these cases we still have judgment here that we but teach bloody instructions, which being taught return to plague the inventor. This even handed justice commends the ingredients of our poison chalice to our own lips. He’s here in double trust. First as I’m as kinsman and his subject strong both against the deed. Then as his host, who should against his murderer shut the door. Not bear the knife myself. Besides this Duncan that born his faculty so meek have been so clear in his great office that his virtues will plead like angels trumpet tongue against the deep damnation of his taking off and pity like a naked newborn babe striding the blast or a heaven’s cherin hoed upon the sightless couriers of the air shall blow the horror deed in every eye. The tears shall drown the wind. 

I have no spur to prick the sides of my intent, but only vaulting ambition which or leaps itself and falls upon the other hell no. What news 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

He has almost sucked. Why have you left the chamber 

Mark Lawson

That he asked for me? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

No, you not. He has, 

Mark Lawson

We will proceed no further in this business. He hath honored me of late and I have bought golden opinions of all sorts of people, which should be worn now and their newest gloss not cast aside so soon 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Was the hope drunk wherein you dressed yourself Has it slept since and wakes it now to look so green and pale at what it did so freely from this time. Such I account thy love are thou a fear to be the same in th own act and valor as thou art and desire, which thou have that which thou esteems to the ornament of life and live a coward in th own esteem. Letting I dare not wait upon I would like the poor cat in the adage 

Mark Lawson

Really peace. I dare to all to may become a man who dares do more is none. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

What beast was it then that made you break this enterprise to me? When you durst do it, then you were a man and to be more than what you were, you would be so much more the man nor time nor placed than it here. And yet you would make both. It has made themselves and that their fitness now does unmake you I have given suck and I know how tender t to love the babe that nokes me. I would while it was smiling in my face, have plucked the my nipple from his boneless gums and dashed the brains out. Had I so sworn as you have done to this, 

Mark Lawson

We should fail. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

We fail. But screw your courage to the sticking place and will not fail when Duncan is asleep. Where to the rather shall his days hard journey soundly invite him. His two chamberlains will lie with wine and waffle. So convinced that memory, the water of the brain shall be a fume. And the receipt of reason a limbic only when in swish sleep their drenched natures lies as in a death. What cannot you and I perform upon the unguarded Duncan, what not put upon his spongy officers who shall bear the guilt of our great well 

Mark Lawson

Bring forth men, children only, but I undaunted. Metal should compose nothing but males. 

Will it not be received when we have marked with blood those sleepy two of his own chamber and use their very daggers that they have done 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Who dares receive it other as we shall make our griefs and clamor roar upon his death? 

Mark Lawson

I am settled up. I am settled and bend up each corporal agent to this terrible feat away and mock the time with Ferris Cho. False face must hide what the false heart does. Know 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

That with which have made them drunk have made me bold. What have quenched them have given me? Fire, heart, peace. It was the owl that shrieked the fatal bellman, which gives the sterns squid night is about it. 

The doors are open and the ed grooms do mock their charge with snores. 

I have drugged their PTs that death and nature do contend about. They live or die. 

Mark Lawson

What? Oh, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Alek. I’m afraid they have awake and is not done. Not the deed confounds us park. I laid their daggers ready. He could not miss them. Had he not resembled my father as he slept, I had dumped I husband. 

Mark Lawson

I have done the deed. They shall not hear a noise. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I heard the owls scream and the crickets cry. Did not you speak when? Now 

Mark Lawson

As I descended, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I 

Mark Lawson

Who lies at the second chamber? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Donald ba. 

Mark Lawson

This is a sorry sight. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

A foolish thought to say a sorry sight. 

Mark Lawson

There’s one that laugh and sleep and one cried murder that they did wake each other. I stood and heard them, but they did say their prayers and addressed them again to sleep. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

There are two lodged together. 

Mark Lawson

One cried. God bless us and amen. The other is, is they had seen me with these hangman’s hands listening. Their fear I could not answer when they, I could not say amen. When they did say, God bless us, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Consider it not so deeply. 

Mark Lawson

Therefore, Could I not pronounce Amen? I had most need of blessing and amen stuck in my throat. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

These deeds must not be thought after these ways. Sto it will make us mad. 

Mark Lawson

Thought I heard a voice cry. Sleep no more Macbeth does murder, sleep. The innocent sleep. Sleep didn’t accept the rab sleeve of care, the death of each day’s life. Sore labor’s, bath balm of hurt minds great nature. Second course, chief nourisher and life feast. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

What do you mean 

Mark Lawson

still It? Right? Sleep. No more to hold the house gloss at bird sleep and therefore caught oia sleep. No more Macbeth shall sleep. No more. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Who was it that thus cried. Why worthy thing you do unbend your noble strength to think so brains sickly of things. Go get some water and wash this filthy witness from your hand. 

Why did you bring these daggers from the place? They must lie there. Go carry them and smear the sleepy groom with blood. 

Mark Lawson

I’ll go no more. I’m afraid to think what I have done. Look on again. I dare not 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

In s firm of purpose. Give me the daggers, the sleeping and the dead are. But as pictures is the eye of childhood that fears a painted devil. If he do bleed, I’ll guild the faces of the grooms with us. Or it must seem their guilt. 

Mark Lawson

It’s just that knocking. I always with me when every noise appalls me. What hands are here? Huh? They pluck out my eyes with all great neptunes ocean. Wash this blood clean from my hand. 

No, this my hand will rather than multitude in a seas and carine making the green one red. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

My hands are of your color. But I shame to wear a heart. So white, I hear a knocking at the south entry retiree to our chamber. A little water clears us of this deed. How easy is it then? Our constancy have left you unattended. 

Ark more knocking, get on your nightgown. Let occasion call us and show us to be watchers. Be not lost. So poorly in your thoughts 

Mark Lawson

To know my deed for best. Not known myself. Wake dun With I knocking, I would. 

Nick Cagle

Oh, you guys just 

Gideon Rappaport

Brilliant. 

Nick Cagle

Wow, wow, wow. We’re you guys are so far ahead of the curve on these things that we’re, we’re gonna get. So we have the ability to break it down so deep that it, this is truly a pleasure. 

Wonderful work. Wonderful work. 

Gideon Rappaport

Great. 

Nick Cagle

Thank you. Gideon, do you have, do you want to go first? 

Gideon Rappaport

Yes. I’ll be very quick. I have five short notes. Line five in the first scene, mark. 

Mark Lawson

Yep. 

Gideon Rappaport

I think might be the be all and end all here already means the second here. The second here is an, is a intensification of it. But I didn’t understand what you meant by the first here because you weren’t already meaning on this shore of life that this side of death. So think about that. I just wanna point out that in lines 14, 15, mark, you have two against, you have strong both against the deed and the next line who should against his murderer. So just think about those. Why Shakespeare’s doubling those up. 

Line 27. What, what was it? Oh, ambition. 

Vaulting ambition. There’s a real difference between which and that in English that is restrictive and usually doesn’t have a comma, which is non restrictive and has a comma. So I think you need to let us absorb ambition before you give us the metaphor of our leaping itself and falling on the other. 

Mark Lawson

Hmm. 

Gideon Rappaport

So I would just take that comma seriously. That’s a suggestion. You’ll do it as you wish. Of course. Line 54, lady Macbeth, what is it? Oh, the, the meter. I just want you to pay attention to. The meter does un make you Babu Babu. So do that. Do without whatever you want. But I think I need, I felt like I needed to hear the you a little bit. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I Actually underlined it after I said it. Oh, okay, good. Yeah. 

Gideon Rappaport

Or of one mind. And the last one is the Lady Macbeth 70. 

No, it’s Macbeth. It’s in the next scene. It’s one note in the next scene. Aligned Wake dunking with thy knocking. You’re shouting that, but you’re still in this place where you’re not supposed to be waking people up to know what’s happened yet. 

So I think it’s dangerous to do that. And I don’t know if you really mean to or not, but it, it doesn’t make sense if they’re trying to be after she said, get on your nightgown. We have to pretend we’re being a and so 

Nick Cagle

Whisper, shout, Whatever, 

Gideon Rappaport

however you wanna do it. 

Mark Lawson

That’s it. 

Gideon Rappaport

That was really superb. 

Nick Cagle

Absolutely stunning. I just have a couple of very, very quick things. If, if I can, Megan, I I would, I I wrote down take take a beat before I have given suck. Yeah. Yeah. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I just think 

Nick Cagle

There, there’s a breath that, that for the audience to catch up. And it’s, it, it’s an interesting line. It’d be cool if we heard it. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah. I was still living in the, I didn’t, I didn’t emphasize you. So 

Nick Cagle

You know, that’s the only thing that there is. You guys are really so on point. There’s just moments where you can step back and take a breath before a couple lines that we can hear. When you start questioning, will it not mark when McBeth starts questioning, that’s another place, maybe some kind of beat. Take a look at your adjustment on that. Megan, I, I loved what you did with Worthy Thayne. You can go further. There was a love there and then it balances, she kind of gets angry with him the next line or something, and there’s a juxtaposition that’s really nice there that I think Shakespeare intended. 

Other than that, I have some fun stuff for us to do next week on these scenes, and you guys are so beautifully far ahead of the curve. Bravo. Bravo 

Gideon Rappaport

Indeed. 

Nick Cagle

Hi, Nathan. Yes. 

Nathan Agin

Hey there. Yeah, it’s, it’s been great to listen to and I’ve really enjoyed all the work you guys are doing and I mean, there are many things I could point to and, and, and expound upon, but no, just overall really enjoying the, the quality of discussion and the specificity, like as Nick mentioned, that you guys were able to explore. I will say, because I, I do this sometimes when I’m, I’m playing parts like this, mark, you talked early on about watching Ian McKellen’s workshop on the role. I, I always approach these roles going, how could I possibly think of everything that is going on with these plays? And so for me, I know some people will never watch anything. They don’t wanna read what anyone else has done with the part. And I’m just like, I don’t have time to try to think of everything that this character is going through. 

So I’m, I’m, I’m always looking for what have other people learned about this part? And it’s, and I think that it’s part, partly the val, the great value in having a dramaturg present because it’s like they’ve been studying the play. You, you want them to help you and, and find all these moments and, and, and that, so yeah. No, I, I I, I, I think it’s a great, I don’t know if I’d say lesson, but a, a great point I think for actors and maybe even particularly younger actors, that it’s okay to look at what other people have done, and you can always make it your own, but just to see what they’ve uncovered so you’re not, you’re not hampering yourself or hamstringing yourself at all, so, 

Mark Lawson

Well, And, but yeah, 

Nathan Agin

Go ahead 

Mark Lawson

to, to answer back to that. I think the other value too is, you know, it’s like training. It’s, it’s, if you know these are all the notes you want to hit, or more, maybe more like music. If you, if you know these are all the notes you want to hit and you’re still getting, you know, the big notes and you’re getting 70% of it, or even in this case, like 50% of it, then you’re still really bringing life to it and, and it’s gonna resonate. All of these things are gonna resonate differently in each actor, and, but you have to be open to all of the availability that all of the things that it’s offering to you, so that when it hits you in that magic moment, it’s hitting you in an authentic way. 

Nathan Agin

Yeah. Yeah. That’s great. That’s a great point. 

Gideon Rappaport

That’s called Preparing a place for the muse. 

Mark Lawson

Yep. 

Nathan Agin

Perfect. 

Mark Lawson

I love That. You Gotta sweep, you know, sweep the floor so she doesn’t mu her dress as Stephen Pressfield would Say. 

Gideon Rappaport

Right. 

Nathan Agin

Very cool. Excellent. Well, thank you guys all for, for your work this week, for those watching. Come on back, subscribe, like, follow us, become a patron if, if you so desire. And yeah, check out what, what happens next in our, our third session of exploring these two Macbeth scenes. Thank you all to the artists for all of your great work this week, and we will see you Anan. 

Gideon Rappaport

Great work, everybody. 

Mark Lawson

Thank you everybody. That was sounds, 

Gideon Rappaport

Thank you so much. 

Nick Cagle

So helpful 

Gideon Rappaport

And good directing. 

Nathan Agin

Yes. Yeah. Yes. Thank you. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

And thank you, Gideon. 

Gideon Rappaport

My pleasure. 

Nick Cagle

Hey, you know what’s fun while, while I have you guys here is what I, I, I, I don’t always en enjoy all of Orson Wells’ Shakespeare because some of it’s very overdone, but he has a really great recording of Macbeth. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Oh, that’s fun. 

Nick Cagle

It’s really fun to listen to. And so you can, I don’t even know where you could find it anymore. I had it on a cd, but I bet you could find it on the internet somewhere. 

Mark Lawson

Oh, on YouTube. 

Nick Cagle

And, and there’s, there’s some, there’s some good stuff in his, in his version with pacing and stuff that he does. Mm, for sure. Yeah. Very cool. Anyway, love you guys. Bravo, thank you so much for another wonderful week next week. Oh, I’m gonna send you some stuff. We’re gonna look at those other two scenes next week, the dagger speech and the letter and that stuff as well. 

Mark Lawson

Great. 

Nathan Agin

You’re gonna, Nick, you’re gonna cram the entire play into this before we’re, we’re over. I, I can already tell. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Better work on casting. 

Nick Cagle

I’ll, I’ll 

Nathan Agin

You guys. 

Nick Cagle

Bravo guys. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

You Thanks 

Nick Cagle

Week 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Byebye. 

Nathan Agin

Bye. 

Gideon Rappaport

Bye.