KING LEAR Week 2: “Unpacking Shakespeare’s Punctuation” – Shakespeare – Act 2, Scene 4 – The Rehearsal Room [Video, Audio, and Transcript versions]

KING LEAR Week 2: “Unpacking Shakespeare’s Punctuation” – The Rehearsal Room

Annie Occhiogrosso: I want to hear if anybody had any thoughts about anything during the week before we jump in.

Jeanne Sakata: Oh, well, I. I read your. The sheets that you sent us, Annie, and. Wow, that. That really gave me a lot of new ideas about that first meet, because there’s so many commas with God speeches. And then I love what you said about how Reagan, she comes in, and there’s hardly any commas.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yes.

Jeanne Sakata: You know that she’s had time to sort of watch your sister. Oh, okay. I’m gonna say this.

Jeanne Sakata: Oh, I just gives you these delicious little moments that really bring the spontaneity of it alive.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yes.

Jeanne Sakata: Because every time I’ve seen Ghana give this speech, it’s always been very polished, as she had planned it out beforehand. And I said, oh, that makes it so much more fun to play. Like, damn, I should have said this. It’s too late.

Annie Occhiogrosso: I said that. They’re all sitting on their feet in order to get it done. Yeah, yeah, right.

Nathan Agin: And as an observer, that’s. That’s such an enjoyable moment where you see a character, like, actively making up something in the moment on the spot. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jeanne Sakata: So I’ve never seen it done that way, and I just thought, oh, that’s so great.

Randall: It’s. I mean, most of the time, you go to a Shakespearean production, and it’s like actors making speeches at each other.

Jeanne Sakata: Yes, exactly.

Randall: Human beings talking to each other, you know, communicating something. Feelings, thoughts, you know, about the circumstance they find themselves in. And that’s what I love about Shakespeare, because it’s. It’s. It’s almost like watching those characters walk tightropes. You know, there’s a danger. There’s a danger to it. It’s not. It’s not comfortable and easy and secure. It feels dangerous. The whole event feels like something’s at stake. And it’s dangerous what these people are doing and saying to each other.

Annie Occhiogrosso: I like to believe that each line gives birth to the next line. So if you don’t have those, men, keeping the watch in Hamlet who say, who’s there? You don’t have a Hamlet because that’s where the play begins. And that first question, calls for an answer. So now we have two actors talking to one another as opposed to playing. So who’s there? Nay, answer me. Uh-huh. And they do a kind of soldier act because they think everybody’s waiting for Hamlet. But if you play the play and, you’ll see the communication takes place right from the beginning. I believe the only truth on stage is Is the truth between two actors, or one actor and, other actors. That’s the only truth. So you can fight all you want about this is what this means. Hamlet was a man who couldn’t make up his mind. Hamlet was this. Hamlet was that. It doesn’t matter, because what the audience sees and gets is the truth of a moment of life between two actors. That’s it. Because they know they. They live. They don’t need us to teach them about being human. They are. And so what we have to do is reflect that truthfully. Yeah. Say it again. I didn’t hear.

Jeanne Sakata: Hold the mirror up.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yes, yes, that’s right.

Nathan Agin: So, I just want to. Yeah, sorry, I just want to jump in very quickly, and then I’ll disappear so you guys can keep. Keep the discussion going. But I don’t want to hold anything up, just, administratively. I want. I want to thank one of our newest patrons, Frank, for helping us, you know, continue to do all this. so thank you, Frank, and thank you all the. To the. All the other patrons that are, covering all the, production costs and things like that. So that’s it. Have a great session, and I’ll be listening in. And, I’ll probably hope to check back at the end, so. But have a great time.

Lizzie King-Hall: Thanks.

Randall: Take care.

Lizzie King-Hall: Yeah.

Annie Occhiogrosso: So that folio and I. The reason I sent it is because these little rules, you know, that follow it, people end up taking notes, to kind of remember all of it. so I thought, well, if I just gave it to you on paper, then you’d at least have that. And the thing about the folio is that, it’s basically an interpretive tool. It’s not meant to say, this is the way you must do it. It’s just to unlock an idea, unlock the imagination. Randy, do you want to just spend a little bit of time telling how we. You. How we came across the folio with Lorraine Dove?

Randall: Well, I had an older actress friend of mine in Hawaii, and when I first did Hamlet in Hawaii, she said, you might want to look at this book that I’ve had for years and years and see whether it’s useful. Well, I opened it up, and I had never seen a text like that where words were capitalized in the middle of a sentence and, you know, periods were infrequent, you know, or. Or certain spellings, were longer than the normal way of spelling a word. So I. I pointed it out to Annie, and we began just experimenting. What. What if you hit that capitalized word a little Harder would it help the sense of what’s being said? And sure enough, it became very helpful. Then we later found out that there’s such a thing as, rhetorical punctuation and grammatical, punctuation, two separate things. The rhetoric. Punctuation is to help the speaker. Grammatical is to help the reader. So what we have in Shakespeare, in the Folio, is rhetorical punctuation to help the actor. Because those actors didn’t have much time to prepare these things. You know, they maybe had two weeks to put a new play into their rep. So they were. Had to be. Had to find as many shortcuts as they could. And one of them was the punctuation that was given to them with, their scripts to help them, you know, to be helpful.

Annie Occhiogrosso: And they had no director. So that. That comes a. Ah, direction, you know, the director. In some ways. This. I think last week when I left on my high note of drama, the thing I wanted to say is that, it’s not. I’m not, It’s not my intention to be disrespectful to directors. I mean, Randy and I have worked with some wonderful, wonderful directors. But my trouble, comes when you look at Shakespeare. There was no director. The play was the director. And because we are so used to modern theater having that director put a stamp on it or a concept on it, we try to put that onto a Shakespearean play. And sometimes at the expense of not doing the play but doing the concept. And so what I ask for, when I go to see a Shakespearean play is. Is more of the play. you know, I find that the play gets. There’s several productions right now, Romeo and Juliet out there. And three of them have Romeo go up on the balcony in the balcony scene. And that can’t be. That’s not the play. Well, I mean, that’s their play. But Romeo can’t go up on that balcony. The whole point of it is they need to come together. The electricity between those two people wanting to touch and hold physically. Love is the distance between them. Him on the ground and her and her balcony. So why would you do act three in act two? so it’s not the play. Now it’s fine for somebody to say, well, I don’t care. It’s my idea. I get it. Okay, fine. I just want. I think you should just know the play you’re doing. Then you can do whatever you want. I mean, that’s your prerogative. But there’s so many things in the play that are so rich and so wonderful, for actors to play that sometimes it gets lost in the midst of the stamp that needs to be put on it. and the Folio, I think, is a wonderful. It’s a wonderful actor tool because you look at that folio and you see a cap, a capital letter in the middle of a sentence. and I’ll give you one example. If we were. Let’s say we were, sitting together, and one of us had a bottle of water, and I knock that bottle of water, and I would say, oh, Jeannie, a shoe. I want the energy to end on shoe. And so how would I notate that in a script? Well, I put a capital S on it because that’s where the hit has to come. There’s, a wonderful book called Shakespeare’s Producing Hand was written by Dr. Richard Flatter. And he had to translate Hamlet into German. And so, of course, the. The words are just not the same. I mean, that was stupid. But I mean, when you’re translating one German word may take the place of three English words or vice versa. So he was trying to figure out how to choose the right German word. Well, he found that when he looked at the Folio, the punctuation taught him how to do that because he was able, in the translation to say, on a colon, the energy moves forward, and the word that would be this verb would be better than this verb to express that. And so he started to do a study of the Folio. And the book is wonderful. He’s come up with many, many, moments that we take for granted. kind of, Jeanne, the moment I told you about Goneril, with the two little absent beats, you know, before she tells Lear how much she loves him. he found that with, a period or a colon, where a modern text would. That would. A scholar would say, or a grammatician would say, no, Shakespeare is just too great a writer to have a run on sentence. And so all of a sudden, colons and commons become periods, because that would be an accurate sentence. but that’s not the point. The point is, as we speak and we get excited, we never stop to think, well, I’ll put a period here. And that’s what puts energy under it. That’s what, in some cases can even tell you what’s happening. What ran.

Randall: Surprise.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yes.

Randall: The audience on their. On their, At the edge. On the edge of their seats. But what’s going to be said next? What’s going to be done next? You know, no Complacent. There’s no complacency in watching a Shakespearean play. On both the actors parts and the audience, they’re engaged in an exciting story.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yeah.

Randall: Thank you.

Annie Occhiogrosso: So all of this is to say that when we look at the punctuation, we will look at it. I won’t take the session would be much too long to actually instruct you on how to use it. As we move along, I’ll point out certain things, according to that paper that I sent you, that may just clarify why something is a comma or why what’s happening on a colon, that kind of thing. The one punctuation that I do love, believe it or not, is the period. There are very few of them, but when they happen, I used to ask my students, what is a period? And they would say, an end of a thought, end of a sentence. And I said to them, look, there’s no end until the big end when you die. So if you have five or six periods in a play, something else has to happen there. And what I’ve learned over the years is that that period is the place at which I check in with the person I’m speaking to to see if they got it, to see if I’ve changed their minds, to see if they will react. and if not, if that period comes and I still have things to say, that tells me I’m going to have to change a tactic here, or continue stronger on. It doesn’t mean end. And so many times people end on a period and we get a long pause. But it’s not so much about that as, again, a time for two actors to connect. and we’ll see more of that as we go through. What I would like to do is have you guys do the scene again because then we can see where we’re at and then go back over. some stuff. I did a lot of research again this week, about some of the circumstances that I want to throw your way. Things to think about. but we’ll look at. We’ll look at the folio punctuation. But if we could just read it, or act.

Jeanne Sakata: Was that the very first scene?

Annie Occhiogrosso: This is. No, this is the scene that you. That we’re doing. This is. I’m, glad to see your highness starts there.

Randall: You both.

Jeanne Sakata: Oh, when. When we’re professing our love for him. Or is the.

Annie Occhiogrosso: No, no, later on.

Jeanne Sakata: Later on. Okay.

Randall: This is when Lear goes to Gloucester’s, to try to find his daughter Regan. Right. The confrontation with the two daughters.

Jeanne Sakata: Oh, oh, oh. When they say you can’t have as many nights.

Randall: You know that stripping process.

Jeanne Sakata: Let’s see. Oh, boy.

Randall: Starts with good morrow to you both.

Jeanne Sakata: Yes, I’m scrolling through. I’m, you. I’m using the. The one that you sent me. Annie, this time.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Oh, yeah.

Jeanne Sakata: So it’s 40, 45. Oh, no, I’m at the end. every inch of king. That life’s a miracle. Oh, this here’s the place. Oh, here. Here it is. Yes, I’ve got it. Sorry, I didn’t realize there was a lot more to this than just the scene. We’re doing.

Randall: Okay, Right. Okay. Good morrow to you both. Hail to your grace.

Lizzie King-Hall: I am glad to see your highness.

Randall: Regan, I think you are. I know what reason I have to think so. If thou shouldst not be glad, I would divorce me from thy mother’s tomb, sepulchering and adulteress. Beloved Regan, thy sister’s naught. O Regan, she hath tied sharp toothed unkindness like a vulture here. Thou wouldst not believe, but how depraved a quality. O Regan.

Lizzie King-Hall: I pray you, sir, take patience. I have hope you less know how to value her desert than she to scant her duty.

Randall: Say, how’s that?

Lizzie King-Hall: I cannot think my sister in the least would fail her obligation. If, sir, perchance, she have restrained the riots of your followers. Tis on such ground and to such wholesome end as clears her from all blame.

Randall: My curse is on her.

Lizzie King-Hall: Sir, you are old. Nature in you stands on the very verge of his confine. You should be ruled and led by some discretion that discerns your state better than you yourself. Therefore I pray you that to our sister you do make return. Say you have wronged her, but, ask her forgiveness.

Randall: Do you but mark how this becomes a house. Dear daughter, I confess that I’m old. Age is unnecessary. On my knees I beg that you’ll vouchsafe me raiment, bed and food.

Lizzie King-Hall: Sir, no more. These are unsightly tricks. Return you to my sister.

Randall: Never. Regan. She hath abated me of half my train. Look black upon me. Struck me with her tongue, most serpent like, upon the very heart. All the stored vengeances of heaven fall on her ingrateful top. Strike her young bones, you taking airs, with, lameness. Fie, sir, fie. You nimble lightnings dart your blinding flames into her scornful eyes, infect her beauty, you fin sucked fogs, drawn by the powerful sun to fall and blister.

Lizzie King-Hall: O the blest gods, so will you wish on me when the rash mood is on.

Randall: No, no, no, Regan. Thou shalt never have my curse. Thy tender, hefted nature shall not give thee o’er to harshness. Her eyes are fierce but thine to comfort and not burn. Tis not in thee too grudge my pleasures to cut off my train, to bandy hasty words, to scant my sizes, and, in conclusion, to oppose the bolt against my coming in. Thou better knowest the offices of nature, bond of childhood, effects of courtesy, dues of gratitude. Thy half of the kingdom hast thou not forgot wherein I thee endowed.

Lizzie King-Hall: Good sir, to the purpose.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Tuck it.

Randall: Who put my.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Okay M. Yeah, tuck it. Oh.

Randall: Oh. Oh. Who put my man in the stocks? What trumpet’s that?

Lizzie King-Hall: I know to my sister’s. This approves her letter, that she would soon be here. Is your lady come.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Ah.

Randall: This is a slave whose easy borrowed pride dwells in the sickly grace of her. He follows. Out, varlet, from my sight. What means your grace, who stalked my servant Regan? I have good hope thou didst not know on’t. Who comes here. O the heavens. If you do love old men, if you yourselves are old, make it your cause. Send down and take my part. Art not ashamed to look upon this beard? O regal. Wilt thou take her by the hand?

Jeanne Sakata: Why not by the hand, sir. How have I offended? All’s not offence that indiscretion finds, and dotage terms so.

Randall: O sides, you’re too tough. Will you yet hold? How came my man in the stocks? I set him there, sir, but his own disorders deserved much less advancement.

Lizzie King-Hall: You did you, I pray you, father, being weak, seem so. If, till the expiration of your month you will return and sojourn with my sister, dismissing half your train, come then to me. I am now from home and out of that provision which shall be needful for your entertainment.

Randall: Return to her and 50 men. Dismissed. No, rather I abjure all rules and choose to wage against the enmity of the heir to be a comrade with the wolf, for now all necessity sharp pinch. Return with her. Why, the hot bloodied France that dowerless took our youngest born. I could as well be brought to knee his throne and squire like pension, beg to keep base life afoot. Return with her. Persuade me rather to be slave and sumpter to this detested groom.

Jeanne Sakata: At your choice, sir.

Randall: I prithee, daughter, do not make me mad. I will not trouble thee, my child. Farewell. We’ll no more meet, no more see one another. But yet thou art my Flesh, my blood, my daughter. Or rather a disease that’s in my flesh, which I must needs call mine. Thou art a boil, a, plague sore, an embossed carbuncle in my corrupted blood. But I’ll not chide thee, Let shame come when it will. I do not call it. I do not bid the thunder bear shoot, nor tell tales of thee to high judging Jove mend when thou canst, be better at thy leisure. I can be patient. I can stay with Regan, I and my hundred knights.

Lizzie King-Hall: Not altogether so. I’d look not for you yet, nor am provided for your fit welcome. Give ear, sir, to my sister, for those that mingle reason with your passion must be content to think you old and so. But she knows what she does.

Randall: Is this well spoken?

Lizzie King-Hall: I dare avouch it, Sir. what, 50 followers? Is it not well? What should you need of more? Yea, or so many, sith that both charge and danger speak gainst so great a number? How in one house should many people under two commands hold amity? Tis hard, almost impossible.

Jeanne Sakata: Why might not you. Why might not you, my lord, receive attendance from those that she calls servants? Or from mine?

Lizzie King-Hall: Why not, my lord? If then they chance to slack ye, we could control them. If you will come to me, for now I spy a danger. I entreat you to bring but 5 and 20. To no more will I give place or notice.

Randall: I gave you all in good time. You gave it, made you my guardians, my depositories, but kept a reservation to be followed with such a number. What, must I come to you with five and 20, Regan? Said you so?

Lizzie King-Hall: And speak not again, my lord. No more with me.

Randall: Those wicked creatures look well favoured, when others are more wicked, not being the worse, stand in some rank of praise. I’ll, go with thee. Thy fifty yet doth double five and twenty, and thou art twice her love.

Jeanne Sakata: Hear me, my lord. What need you 5 and 20, 10, or 5, to follow in a house where twice so many have a command to tend you?

Lizzie King-Hall: What need one?

Randall: Reason, not a need. Our, basest beggars are to the poorest things superfluous. Allow not nature more than nature needs. Man’s life is cheap as beast. Thou art a lady. If only to go warm were gorgeous. Why, nature needs not what thou gorgeous wearest, which scarcely keeps thee warm. But for true need. Oh, you, heavens, give me patience, patience I need. You see me here, you gods, A poor old man, as full of grief as age, wretched and bolt. If it be you that stirs these daughters hearts, against their father. Fool me not so much to bear it tamely. Touch me with noble anger. and let not women’s weapons, water drops stain my man’s cheeks. No. You are natural hags. I will have revenges on you both. All the world shall I. I will do such things. What they are yet I know not, but they shall be the terrors of the earth. You think I’ll, ah, weep. No, I’ll, not weep. This heart shall break into a hundred thousand floors or ere I’ll weep. Oh, fool, I shall go mad.

Annie Occhiogrosso: And let’s just take it to the end. While we’re here, let us withdraw.

Randall: Let us withdraw. To be a storm.

Lizzie King-Hall: This house is little, the old land and people cannot be well bestowed is his own blame.

Jeanne Sakata: Hath put himself from rest, and must needs taste his folly.

Lizzie King-Hall: For his particular I’ll receive him gladly. But not one follower.

Jeanne Sakata: So am I purposed.

Annie Occhiogrosso: where is my lord Cloth?

Jeanne Sakata: Oh, I’m sorry.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yeah, just keep. We’re gonna go to you. Oh, you don’t have it.

Jeanne Sakata: Yeah, I’m sorry, Annie. I realized as we were reading it that I’m missing some lines.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Oh, okay.

Jeanne Sakata: So I think you should go back to the link, because this.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Okay, well, we can. We can stop there. I just. And I’ll just. I’ll, ah, make a reference to it later. But let. Let me see. First of all, just your feedback on the scene in terms of how you’re feeling about it. are there anything. Are there anything that you say that you’re uncomfortable with or you don’t understand what it means, or any section that you feel, isn’t connecting before I kind of jump in?

Jeanne Sakata: Well, you know, for me, it really feels so much more like a real family now. I just felt, you know, like you said, Randy, it’s so easy to make these grand speeches, which they are.

Randall: Yeah.

Jeanne Sakata: But when I was listening to you, I just thought, what. How hard it’s been to live with him all these years. You know, at the same time, I love. But, you know, the things, the qualities he had, like the. The drama of it, the pomposity, the. You know, and we’ve been these, We’ve been these daughters. We’ve been trying to, you know, be good princesses ever. But I just thought, wow, this is a really tough situation to be in as a daughter, you know, that there are certain things that he said have to be so. And, you know, what you said about what is it like to house 100 nights? I’m exhausted yeah, this. And he’s calling us hags. And I just felt the exhaustion of it.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yeah.

Jeanne Sakata: and at the same time, this is, you know, my father, who has been king for so many years. It was just wonderfully complex, like families are.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yeah. Yeah. So then. Good. Anyone else? Anything, Lizzie, that you’re.

Lizzie King-Hall: I was just thinking, it’s not a challenge, it’s a pleasure that, like, someone with such a rich experience of this role as Randy, to watch him. It’s intimidating as a younger actor, but it also is such a real experience of having to, like, stand your ground, as they have to, and be a little bit courageous, Ah. And continue to make your point.

Lizzie King-Hall: And, you know. Yeah, he is. As much as I don’t want to, like, negatively judge characters, but he is manipulative. And, So you have to, It’s just this wave of stuff coming at you. And I was. I always try and think of how I would. What I would be doing physically. And I was like, well, I think I would just be standing there and receiving and just trying to kind of square my shoulders.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yeah.

Annie Occhiogrosso: You know, it’s so wonderful to hear you both talk about this, because one of the things I’m going to remind you is that certainly is not what you told him in the first act. Either one of you. You see what I mean? Neither one of you said, you’re impossible. You know, you’d share a little bit of that with each other when he was gone, but you both told him, you’re the. You’re tops, dad. Nobody could love you more than I love you. See, and that’s in the play. At the very end of the play, Edgar is going to say, What is the line now? Speak what you mean, Speak.

Randall: Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say.

Annie Occhiogrosso: That’s it. Say it again, Thomas.

Randall: speak what we feel, not what.

Annie Occhiogrosso: We ought to say. Yes, and that’s going to be a major line in this. Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say. Because Cordelia, of course, is a representative of that. She said what she felt. and the lesson gets learned, certainly by Edgar at the end of the play. But you start to put an eye towards who does say what they feel, you know, and who. Who doesn’t. And with the two girls, I think you find that they did what they were told to do to get their share of the kingdom. but now, both of you, it’s so wonderful because both of you are living out exactly what you should be living out with Goneril and Reagan. He’s impossible. I can’t. How can I rule with. You know. But that’s not what you told him. And that, I think, is an important element. I want to share with you two little things before we jump in further with the text. You know, I was reading all the source material, material that Shakespeare knew before he put the play together. and one little thing came, out that I was so curious about, and that was with Goneril. One of the reasons in one of the stories told that she wants to cut back his train is that they’re so costly, it’s keeping her from buying the clothing she wants.

Jeanne Sakata: So interesting.

Annie Occhiogrosso: And then later, Lear has a line about, playing the vanities part. This is when he’s in the Hubble. He makes a reference to vanity, and in association, I think, with Goneril. But one of the things, Jeannie, that occurred. And this is where your imagination now takes over. No right or wrong, or we don’t write books about it. But when I found that little nugget, I thought, I bet that’s why she’s annoyed that these men are cluttering her. Has nothing to do with them being rowdy and terrible. But it’s a hundred of them. And this no longer looks like. I mean, I have a sister who, my handicapped. I know she’s not a bad person. So what I’m about to say. Don’t judge, but my uncle was handicapped, and he had to go up the stairs, and she had white walls, and she put gloves on him so he wouldn’t dirty her walls. And that’s what I’m thinking of in terms of Goneril. That the idea of kingship, the idea of leadership is in appearance. This is what it should look like. You may want to just think about that, you know?

Jeanne Sakata: Okay. Great.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Okay.

Randall: Also, too, one of the things, as he curses Goneril, he specifically wants, her beauty to be infected.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yes.

Randall: So of all the daughters, she’s probably the most beautiful and is aware of.

Annie Occhiogrosso: That, or certainly does. Yeah. You know, makes herself a beautiful.

Randall: Absolutely. Yeah. So she’s. Yeah.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yeah.

Jeanne Sakata: That’s great.

Annie Occhiogrosso: The thing about Regan that occurs to me is when you look at her particularly. I was listening very closely to this scene. Lizzie. She always uses words like, I beseech you. I beg you. I, She rarely is direct the way Goneril is direct. At your choice, sir, Goneril says, you say, where is it? Therefore, I pray you that to our sister you do make return, even at the end of your Plea to him. You use the word I pray you in, I pray you, sir, take patience. You say, you know that. I mean, that’s early on. And then even later on, you have another one where you say, I.

Randall: Entreat you to bring but 5 and 20.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yes. And I pray you, father, being old seems so. So that’s a clue, I think, to the. One of the differences between the two of them. and with that in mind, we’ll look closer at it. But one of the things that occurred to me, you know, when he’s going on with, his whole thing about. No, you. You say to him, oh, the blessed God, so will you wish on me. When the rash mood is on. Remember that. And he’s. He goes on. Tis not in the. To grudge my pleasure to cut off my train. To bandy haste, to scamp my son. Conclusion. To oppose the bolt. You’re better than her. You would never do that. You’re too kind. You’re too kind. I wonder if she’s not about to succumb to it. And so she just wants him to be quiet because she’s feeling.

Randall: Yes.

Annie Occhiogrosso: I should be the better daughter. I should be the better. So when you say to the purpose, it’s to get him to stop.

Lizzie King-Hall: Yeah.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yeah.

Lizzie King-Hall: That’s so much more, Yeah. Poignant.

Annie Occhiogrosso: And then if you add on to that, you hear that Goneril’s here. Thank God. Because I can’t. I’m not getting anywhere. Return, return, return. And she’s here. And I think if we were standing on her feet, what I would have you do is rush over to her.

Lizzie King-Hall: Yeah.

Annie Occhiogrosso: You know what I mean?

Lizzie King-Hall: He knows how to talk to him.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yeah. She’ll handle it. I hate.

Lizzie King-Hall: Yeah, I think that’s. Yeah. When we get. It’s such a trap with Shakespeare that we get these stereotypes about, the characters. And so we’re told, here is what you are. Here is what you are. Your father is telling you. But. And then here on the page, the father is saying, you are the compliant one. And isn’t it easier to just try that? Like, they’re both assertive. Well, what if one of them is really attached to being beautiful and the other one is really attached to being the good girl. Golden child.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yes. Yes. And the way to stay the good girl is to not deal. I, won’t be home when he comes because I can’t be a bad girl, you know, I’m just not home, you know? So I think that that followed suit. The other question that Occurred to me. And this goes back to goner. Why do you come? Why do you come? You sent him to her.

Lizzie King-Hall: She wrote a letter.

Jeanne Sakata: So I was thinking, you know, in the letter, I might have been saying, all right, this is what’s happening now. He’s going to your place. I think it’s time that we started putting these boundaries up. and you know, and also I was thinking that if he’s stormed off, you know, there was that thing that you said, a bit of competitiveness between the sisters. there’s a sense of maybe I have to go see what’s going on, because, yes, Some alliance they’re going to form against me.

Annie Occhiogrosso: absolutely. She’s going to screw it up. She’s got the potential. Because again, if she’s the good sister, he can. He can influence her. She’s. And she’s mad at me. Yes.

Jeanne Sakata: What could happen if he goes to her?

Lizzie King-Hall: He’s gonna give an inch and he’s.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Gonna take a moment.

Jeanne Sakata: I mean, Yeah, I. I think I better go check and see what’s going on here.

Annie Occhiogrosso: That’s exactly. And you told her that you would. So it’s not a secret. But yeah. Being that when you get. You have to ensure that she does not succumb to his complaints about you and. And it doesn’t occur to her that somehow. Oh, wait a minute. If I join with him. Hm. I, We can both oppose you.

Jeanne Sakata: Yes. Because I’ve got my third. I’ve got my third. But it doesn’t feel.

Annie Occhiogrosso: You have half. At this point. You both have half.

Jeanne Sakata: I mean, half.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yes. Right.

Jeanne Sakata: But somehow it doesn’t feel secure to me.

Annie Occhiogrosso: It’s not secure for either one of you. That’s where that train has got to be cut down to nothing. It’s dangerous because if he sends those men out, to Cordelia. That’s right. He can raise an army to come back. That’s why his rages are. You may not like them and they may be, but they are also dangerous. and you’ve told us all. Listen, I’m not making this up on the spot. You. That scene we read last week where the two of you. We’re goneral. Is saying we have to do something, and you say, oh, my God, we might. The same way he. He, got upset with France, we might see that. And the fact that he banished Kent. It’s a problem. It’s a big problem. And so that’s why I think you have to diminish him. You’ve got to get him to a place where he is, not powerful. And of course, Lizzie, you as Regan, carry the line. Being weak seems so. He does not seem so. He seems mighty strong. And so you have to get him to understand you should. Old and weak. So it all kind of fits. Fits together. Now, I want to add two other things. And one of them is, where the scene starts just so, because we’re taking it in m the middle. Lear arrives and sees Kent in the stocks. He asks Kent, how did it happen? Kent accuses Cornwall and Regan. Lear says, no. Kent says, yeah. He says, m. Maybe Cornwall, but not Regan. And Ken says, no, your daughter too. And Lear says, no. He demands gloss to bring them down to him. I want to bring them here. Gossip comes back. He says they’re not feeling well. They’re tired from their. Whatever he says. But he’s. They delight. They won’t come right down. Leah goes berserk. Let me spell this out for you. He says, the king, the. The father wants to see his daughter. The king, you know, And. And Gloucester says, I’ll try. I’ll try. So Glass has to go back again twice now. So you come in now, and you. They both say, hail to your lord. Cornwall says, hail to your lordship. You say, I’m glad to see your highness. Okay. Lear gets to breathe a little bit because. Because now he’s hoping. And that’s why he says, I think you are Randy. That goes back to the fact he wasn’t sure because Kent had planted the doubt. So when she says, I’m glad to see you, look what. Look what happens. He indeed says to her, I, think you are. Because if you weren’t, then I would say that you’re the child of some other man. Your mother slept with someone. You’re not my blood. Okay? He says that. And when that happens, he sees Kent is released from the stocks. Oh, are you released? He says, we’ll talk about that later. And so then he jumps to Regan. He trusts her. Regan, your sister’s horrible. He. He pours his heart out to you about that. You turn the tables by saying, go back. I’m sure that she wouldn’t do something like that. My sister? Come on. She’s, you know, responsible. I’m sure it’s about your man. Then. And so net. And then we get. We get the next he. Now we’re into. Are you saying. How could that be? And then on top of you add, return to her. Yeah, return to her. And you’re asking him for something that is Worse than, I would say, death itself at this stage, that the treatment he received from her was so hard. That’s why he has to put it all out there. Because you’re not getting the picture of what returning to her entails. All right? You have to hear him do that and respond. Steel yourself, as you said earlier, if to steal yourself, to say, I. It can’t. That can’t be that. Even though you may be believing him to keep saying return to her. Return to her. Do you see what I mean? That’s your battle. That’s Regan’s battle. Is Lear pouring all of this out, and you still holding on to somehow making the situation look like he could return to her.

Lizzie King-Hall: Right. You’re taking it so personally.

Annie Occhiogrosso: And we’ll go back over the script specifically to see that. Thomas, the thing I want to add about Cornwall is we have heard on several occasions he’s hot blooded. Gloucester tells us that he’s hot blooded. When you’re with Lear. I would restrain it. It’s an interesting thing to me because one of the differences seems to happen in the play is that Cornwall follows Regan. Regan says, jump. Cornwall says, how high? and in fact, there’s a moment in one of these scenes I forgot nearby where Regan says, and if this happens, I won’t do such and such. And Cornwall says, and I won’t either. As if. Who cares? So there’s a kind of relationship there of Regan seeming to have a little more power over Cornwall than certainly, Gonerill has over Albany.

Randall: Well, it, Cornwall acknowledges the fact that he only has power because of. He’s. He’s married to Regan.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yeah, that’s right. But Albany does not. Albany does stand up to you. He says, you may be going too far. And you. And you’re the one who has to constantly, you know, put him. Put him in his place. You’re. People look at you as if you’re a coward, you know? so there’s a difference in their relationships with their husbands as well. All right. Okay. So. So, Thomas, my point with Cornwall is he has to keep, a very close eye on Regan because you are letting her handle this. Yeah. And the only time you’re brave enough to confront him is to say, I put him there.

Randall: Okay.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Do you see what I mean? It leads to that. But before that, you’re quiet as a mouse.

Randall: Yeah, absolutely.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Okay. Now, if I could, I’d like to just explain a little bit some of the things I noticed that are worth knowing in the Folio. and that is a comma. I do want to take a minute to. So I know it’s on that paper, but just so maybe I can clarify it a little more. The thing about a comma is everything before the comma is all you expect to say. M. What follows is an afterthought that is connected to what came before. But it, it still lets you think on your feet. So if you look. Let’s just take a quick look at, I pray you, sir. And you see that Take patience. Regan. I’m sorry, I’m at the beginning of the scene again. and after leaders speech to you. Right.

Lizzie King-Hall: 16. I pray you, sir, take patience.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yes. So the patience is all you expect to say.

Lizzie King-Hall: Sure.

Annie Occhiogrosso: And then you add the next. All right.

Randall: And the next.

Annie Occhiogrosso: so you get, I pray you, sir, thought, take patience. I have hope so if. Now I’m taking pauses just to illustrate. But if you can get into the pattern of it being an afterthought, I usually do this little exercise with people where if we’re in a restaurant and we’re going to, let’s say, order a burger, and you also want fries, but you only think of the fries after you’ve ordered the burger. So you go into the restaurant and you say, I’d like a burger and some fries. So it’s different than saying, I like a burger and fries because the one thought is the two items in. In one thought, the other is the burger. Oh, and some fries. Now, the whole point of doing all of this is if you get into. To the ease of it, it really keeps you in the moment. It gives a sense of the thing you were saying earlier, Jeanne. Thinking on your feet, making it feel fresh, making it feel like, oh, I had no idea what I was about to say. I’m thinking the thought rather than I memorize the speech off stage. And here it is. so once you spend some time with that comma, I think you’ll see that it really does allow you to give the illusion of the first time that I’m speaking this, in the moment. Now, I noticed that there were. I thought you guys all sort of hit the capitals, which is great. The next step in all of that is to ask yourself, m. Why is that a capital? Why would that. As I gave you the whole thing about the shoe, it’s the same thing. But one of the things I’m finding almost every time the word nature is capitalized, I told Randy last night, the word nature is used more than 40 times in this play. And it appears in 16 scenes. so that this. And because Lear, of course, course, goes out into the storm. And that nature, Him. Nature itself opposes Lear, you know. And, you have that whole idea of. Of nature being animals and birds, I mean, and flowers and the physical nature. But you also have man’s nature, who you should be nature. Your love for your father. Cordelia tries to make this, point. Your love for your father is natural. Edmund will want nature as his goddess, because to him, nature has no bounds the way man’s laws do. At any rate, it comes up an awful lot. So when you see that cap on nature, I would start to, give it emphasis. Because that word and, that condition. That condition is, a. Ah, very important. it’s important to everybody in this play. And of course, Shakespeare holds the mirror up to nature, not humanity, not people, to nature, the thing you innately. and. And of course, that’s what will come out. Goneril’s nature will be what Gree. I don’t know. You know, I don’t know, ultimately what word you want to put on it. But that’s what you want to understand when you say the word. It does hold a kind of meaning. Be careful just tossing it off as one of those Shakespearean words. Just say nature. because it’s essential to their arguments. and. And of course, we’ll. We’ll look at that. Lear is filled with them. He’s using it all the time. and particular, that speech about allow, not nature. What more than it needs.

Randall: Yeah.

Annie Occhiogrosso: You know, because your argument about what need one? And he says, reason, not the need. Because the point is that nature. Nature needs more. Because we are human beings. We have to have clothing, we have to have art, we have to have beauty. We have to have things that, if we cast as he will be cast out into the storm. and the clothing isn’t all just about being warm. It’s about looking a particular way. It’s a very important argument that he tries to make. And I think it’s so important. Jeanne. I’m thinking of Goneril, because if we do follow through with this idea of her being this woman who understands what kingship should be and what it should look like externally. Nobody in this play ever talks about taking care of the people. No one ever once talks about a law that’s necessary or, you know, and it’s only Lear out in the storm later that says, oh, I. I’ve given too little care to people who are poor and have no clothing. And I I’ve given. Because in that castle, in, you know, in their world, they don’t even think about it. They think about.

Jeanne Sakata: It’s all about appearances. Right. It’s all about.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yeah, right. And it’s why. It’s why Kent has to strip himself of the appearance of being a lord. Because he’s got. Or, a follower. Devoted follower, because that’s inside. He’s going to be a devoted. Just dressed like a, you know, without any kind of lordly clothing at all. Edgar will do the same thing.

Jeanne Sakata: Yeah.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Who they really are. Okay. Okay. So, can we. Let’s go through it again. and let’s just see if we. If I can just stop and go a little bit. Just. Just, you know, apply some of the stuff that we’ve just talked about. Okay. So, Ran, you wrote to you bold.

Randall: Hail to your grace.

Lizzie King-Hall: I am glad to see your highness.

Randall: Regan. I. I think you are. I know what reason I have to think so. If thou shouldst not be glad, I would divorce me from my mother’s tomb sepulchering and adulteress. Oh, Regan, thy sister’s not.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Wait. Rand. Oh. Are you free?

Randall: Oh, sorry.

Annie Occhiogrosso: That’s okay.

Randall: I think thou art. I know what reason I have to think so. If thou shouldst not be glad, I would divorce me from thy mother’s tomb sepulchering an adulteress. Oh. Are you free? There’s some other time for that. Beloved Regan, thy sister’s naught. She a tied, sharp toothed unkindness, a vulture. Here I can scarce speak to thee. Thou wouldst not believe with how depraved the quality of. Regan.

Lizzie King-Hall: Pray you, sir, take patience. I have hope you less know how to value her dessert than she to scant her duty.

Randall: Say, how is that.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yeah, just stop for one second. One of the things, just so you’re all aware of the. What he’s describing is, himself being tied to a rock as, Prometheus and the vulture pecking every day. So what he said to you is an image. And you would be very well aware of it, as would Shakespeare’s audience, which tells you a lot about ours. But at any rate, Well, you know, I think we spent our lives thinking we’re so much smarter, and then at the same time, we dumb everything down because we’re afraid the audience isn’t going to get it. But this stuff was written for a very smart audience, and even the Groundlings had a better education than we have thought to keep in mind. But I digress at Any rate, so. But what he says to you in that imagery, sharptooth unkindness like a vulture here, I can’t even tell you. He says, I can’t even speak. You won’t believe how terrible she was. Are you hearing it? Are, you hearing, you know. And your response doesn’t acknowledge that. Right. So in a way, it seems like you’re saying. When you say, take patience, this is just a typical, you know, typical Lear moment. Yeah, that’s what I think. Randy shocks him.

Lizzie King-Hall: Yeah.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Okay, so can we just do that a little bit again?

Randall: I think you are, Regan. I think you are. I know what reason I have to think so. If thou shouldst not be glad, I would divorce me from thy mother’s tomb. Sepulchering and adulteress. Are, you free? I have some other time for that. Beloved Regan, thy sisters naught. Regan, she hath tied sharp toothed unkindness like a vulture here. I can scarce speak. Thou wouldst not believe with how depraved a quality.

Lizzie King-Hall: Regan, I pray you, sir, take patience. I half hope you less know how to value her desert than she to scant her duty.

Randall: Say, how’s that?

Lizzie King-Hall: I cannot think my sister in the least would fail her obligation. If, sir, perchance, she have restrained the riots of your followers just on such ground until such wholesome end as clears her from all blame.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Hold on a sec. I just want to help you with the. The very last two lines. Tis on such ground, and, make sure you give full, attention to wholesome end. One of the things now, and I appreciate what you’re doing, is to say this on ground into such wholesome end, but because it’s separated by that comma, you need to think that next thought. Okay? And that clears. Is a long spelling. Yes. Good.

Lizzie King-Hall: I cannot think my sister in the least would fail her obligation. If, sir, perchance, she have restrained the riots of your followers. Tis on such ground and to such wholesome end as clears her from all blame.

Randall: Oh, my curse is on her.

Lizzie King-Hall: Sir, you are old. Nature in you stands on the very verge of his confinement. You should be ruled and led by some discretion that discerns your state better than you yourself. Therefore, I pray you that to our sister you do make return. Say you have wronged her.

Randall: Ask her forgiveness.

Annie Occhiogrosso: You.

Randall: But mark how this becomes the house. Dear daughter, I confess that I’m old. Age is unnecessary. On my knees, I beg that you’ll vouchsafe me raiment, bed and food.

Lizzie King-Hall: Good sir, no more. These are unsightly tricks return you to my sister.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Hold a sec. Because one of the things I want to point out, sometimes with the colon, it sometimes leaps forward. So if you’re in that restaurant with that burger, but you really want those fries, and the waiter is ready to take your order and move on, you would say something like, I’d like a burger. Oh, and some fries.

Randall: Okay.

Annie Occhiogrosso: So you would leap to the next. All right. The other thing about the colon is it’s, It’s a direction, to move. Physically move.

Lizzie King-Hall: Sure.

Annie Occhiogrosso: So you’ll see that it comes when he goes on his knees. I confess that I’m old ages on this. On my knees. The colon is. That is where he does it. The other thing, of course, that’s so wonderful, I think, is that I beg that you vouchsafe me, Raymond. Bed and food, good sir. No more. You see that colon? I think you. Yes, that’s right. You go to pick them up.

Lizzie King-Hall: Yeah.

Annie Occhiogrosso: So it’s just. It’s kind of directs itself. if you just follow it, you know. And of course, as I said, none of it’s in stone. Maybe the director said, no, I don’t want you going there. So you don’t go. You want to work. but. But again, it’s just wonderful to understand that these scenes are physical. That’s why scholars can look at a text, but all they’ll ever see are the words on the page. They’ll never see the life between. and that’s what we have to do on stage. So you get that picture of him now actually getting on his knees, and he will get on his knees another time. And that will be at the end of the play. To Cordelia. Yeah. okay. Okay. Sorry. So can we just take it from. Oh, sir, you were old.

Lizzie King-Hall: Yes. Oh, sir, you are old. Nature in you stands on the very verge of his confine. You should be ruled and led by some discretion that discerns your statement.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Let me stop you again. Nature in you stands on the very verge of his confines. Is one of those expressions. Do you have an idea of what it means? I mean, do you have. What do you think it means?

Lizzie King-Hall: You are old, and you are at the end of the experience of having a human nature. Your nearest death.

Annie Occhiogrosso: There you go. You’re about to die.

Lizzie King-Hall: Yeah.

Annie Occhiogrosso: So. So you want to try to put that into that as best you can. It sounds foreign. It doesn’t have to sound. My point is, it doesn’t have to be a. An expression that, you know, that is, unnatural. okay, so just tell him he’s going to die. With that line I sensitively tell. I mean, again, you don’t want to. If somebody told me I was going to die, you know, because I saw my gray hair, I’d be worried. Okay?

Randall: My curse is on her.

Lizzie King-Hall: Oh, sir, you are old. Nature in you stands on the very verge of his confine. You should be ruled and led by some discretion that discerns your state better than you yourself. Therefore, I pray you that to, our sister you do make return. Say you have wronged her.

Annie Occhiogrosso: What?

Randall: Ask her forgiveness. Do you. But mark how this becomes the house. Dear daughter, I confess that I’m Old age is unnecessary. On my knees, I beg that you’ll vouchsafe me. Raymond, bed and food.

Lizzie King-Hall: Good sir, no more. These are unsightly tricks. Return you to my sister?

Randall: Never, Regan. She hath abated me of half my train, looked black upon me, struck me with her tongue most serpent like upon the very heart. All the stored vengeances of heaven fall on her ingrateful top. Strike her young bones, you taking airs with lameness. I, sir, fie, nimble lightnings dart your blinding flames into her scornful eyes and, infect her, beauty. You, fen sucked fogs, drawn by the powerful sun to fall and blister.

Lizzie King-Hall: Oh, the blest gods. So you will wish on me when the rash mood is on.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yes, and that’s great. Let me tell you, the exclamation mark is the rarest punctuation in these scripts. And you get one. One of the things I think that you’re. One of the things that is suggesting to me again, is that you, that’s where you. That’s where he gets to you, finally. I think you’ve held it under wraps. Held it under wraps. Held it under wraps. But when he does that, and it is quite. You know, this is where Jeannie was saying we’ve had to live with this all these years. You nimble lightning’s dart, your burning flames into her scornful infect her beauty. You fence up fogs drawn by the powerful. I mean, this rage is beyond. No, one should ever be in that state. That’s proof that he’s. He’s gone, you know, that he shouldn’t been given any, freedom. yeah, okay. All right. But that’s why that comes. I think that might be the clue to us of. End of. Got it. Okay. Okay. And I say it because, Randy, when you say, no, Regan, you’re just about to lose all you have left you have one daughter banished the other one you. Yeah.

Randall: Yeah.

Annie Occhiogrosso: If she leaves you, you’re toast.

Randall: I’m. I’m alone.

Annie Occhiogrosso: That’s absolutely right. So can you give her the fen, Suck fogs? The fen.

Randall: Whatever, you nimble lightnings, Dart your blinding flames into her scornful eyes, Infect her beauty, you, fen sucked fogs, drawn by the powerful sun to fall and blister the blessed gods.

Lizzie King-Hall: So will you wish on me when the rash mood is on.

Randall: no. Regan, thou shalt never have my curse. Her eye. Thy tender, hefted nature shall not give thee o’er to harshness. Her eyes are fierce, but thine to comfort and not burn. Tis not in thee to grudge my pleasures, cut off my train, to bandy hasty words, to scant my sizes, and in conclusion, to oppose the bolt against my coming in. No. Thou better knowest the offices of nature, Bond of childhood, effects of courtesy, dues of gratitude. Thy half of the kingdom hast thou not forgot. wherein I thee endowed, good sir, to the purpose. Who put my servant in the stocks? What trumpet sack.

Lizzie King-Hall: I know it.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Okay. And I’d like to almost overlap that so that the trumpet and Lear’s response are going to be one. you see, and that. And I think that. That, Thomas, come right in. Don’t wait for it. All right.

Randall: Okay.

Annie Occhiogrosso: And I think you do. And again, it is to the steward. So that’s why he enters there. So you’ll go right over to him. But now we get this. This kind of noise from outside. The steward comes in. Lear is in, in a rage. She. She is not saying to him. You’re right. I do love saying to the purpose. And he’s back to why he wanted you to come down in the first place. You did put him in the stocks, didn’t you? So be. Because you’re not the tender, hefted daughter he’s describing. You’re just moving on to. To the purpose. To the purpose. You know, and it’s not a line reading. It’s just me being passionate just so that he goes back to why he’s gonna have to get. That’s why that cap is on stocks at the end and long spelling. All right. and now we move on to what? Trumpets that. Can we just do that?

Randall: Oh, Regan, thou shalt never have my curse. Thy tender, hefted nature shall not give thee. Or to harshness. Her, eyes are fierce, but thine to comfort and not burn. Tis not in thee to grudge my pleasures. To cut off my train to bandy hasty words, to scant my sizes, and in conclusion, to bolt the door against my coming in. Thou better knowest the offices of nature, the bond of childhood, the effects of courtesy, the dews of gratitude. Thy half of the kingdom hast thou not forgot wherein I thee endow’d.

Lizzie King-Hall: But, sir, to the purpose.

Randall: Who put my man in the stocks? What trumpet’s that?

Lizzie King-Hall: My note. My sister’s. This approves her letter that she would soon be here. Is your lady come.

Randall: this is a slave whose easy borrowed pride dwells in the sickly grace of her. He follows out varlet from my sight. What means your grace, who m stalked my servant Regan. I have good hope thou didst not know on it. Who comes here. O heavens, if you do love old men, if you yourselves are old. no. If you do love old men, if your sweet sway allow obedience, if you yourselves are old, make it your cause. Send down and take my part. Art, ah, not ashamed to look upon this beard?

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yeah. Excuse me, but I. I think too that. That you may want to at least try once, that being a prayer to the heavens, and separate it when you move on to. Art, not ashamed?

Randall: Yeah, yeah. Who stocked my servant Regan? I have good hope thou didst not know on it who comes here. O heavens, if you do love old men, if your sweet sway allow obedience, if you yourselves are old, make it your cause. Send down and take my part. Art not ashamed to look upon this beard. Regan, wilt thou take her by the hand?

Jeanne Sakata: Why not by the hand, sir? How have I offended? All’s not offence that indiscretion finds, and dotage terms so.

Randall: O sighed, you’re too dark. Will you yet hold. How came my man amusat? I upset him there, sir, but his own disorders deserved much less advancement.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Okay, Cole, because I want to come back to it, two things. goner. One of the things I want to just call your attention to. It’s all lowercase. so I. What I would suggest is to toss it off a little more.

Jeanne Sakata: Oh, okay.

Annie Occhiogrosso: You see what I mean?

Jeanne Sakata: I do have sir capitalized.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Is that. Yes. That’s good. Yeah. And sir will always be. Unless it’s a diminutive. Somebody’s mocking somebody.

Randall: Okay.

Annie Occhiogrosso: but. But as you move, as you look at the rest of what she said, it’s almost, you know, water off a duck’s back. Okay, okay, that makes sense. Yeah. And then that’s why rent. That’s why he gets the. The wonderful exclamation. Now it’s his turn And he asks that question again. Thomas. you see, Lowercase.

Randall: Yes.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Be careful of. I set him there. It becomes, Feel. Feel it out. Feel it out. Rather than what we had worked on the other day. It becomes stuck. And you need. You need to simply answer Lear. Again, I’m be careful of the word simply. Because I don’t want that to mean throw everything away. I just want it to be between you and Lear.

Annie Occhiogrosso: And I trust you to take it wherever you can take it. Since you know now that disorders is going to be the. The big part of it. You see what I’m saying? Otherwise, what happens? By the way, ladies and gentlemen, I think you have to be careful of the sound of passion. We. The sound starts to coat the words. And so before you know it, we’re hearing anger, sorrow, and we don’t have the words anymore. I read a paragraph the other night and I don’t have it in front of me. But it reminded us that particularly in modern theater, we were so used to subtext, we’re, so used to what’s happening under the lines that if you’re doing Shakespeare, that puts in the hands of the director to intuit what the line means because it’s subtext and therefore Shakespeare’s words go out the window. Or it all seems too long because you’re not even paying attention to the words anymore. We’ve summarized it with the subtext. And I think that you have to understand that when he has Hamlet say, suit the word to the action, the action to the word. Words are life in Shakespeare. They’re not. You’re not a dictionary. You don’t have to worry about. My job is to make all this understood. But. But you do need to breathe life in to each word. That’s how good he was as a playwright. He put life into words, not definition. The definitions there, of course they have meaning. So. So you are too tough, you know? I said him there. I would just be strong on it, Thomas. But not angry.

Randall: Okay?

Annie Occhiogrosso: That’s what I’m saying. Okay. So, once again, where from? O’Regan? Will you take her?

Randall: Regan, will you take her by the hand?

Jeanne Sakata: Why not by the hand, sir? How have I offended? I’ll not offence that indiscretion finds in dotage terms. So.

Randall: Besides, you’re too tough. Will you yet hold. How came my man of the stocks? I set him there, sir, but his own disorders deserved much less advancement. You did you.

Lizzie King-Hall: I pray you, father, being weak seems so. If till the expiration of your month. You will return and sojourn with my sister, dismissing half your train. Come then to me. I am now from home and out of that provision which shall be needful for your entertainment.

Randall: Return to her and 50 men. M dismissed. Nor rather I, abjure all roofs and choose to wage against the enmity of the air to be a comrade with a wolf and owl, Necessity’s sharp pinch. Return with her. Why, the hot bloodied France that dowerless took our youngest born. I could as well be brought to knee his throne and squire like pension bed to keep base life afoot. Return with her. persuade me rather to be slave and sumpter to this detested groom.

Jeanne Sakata: At your choice, sir.

Randall: I prithee, daughter, do not make me mad. I will not trouble thee, my child. Farewell. We’ll no more see, will no more meet, no more see one another. But yet thou art my flesh, my blood, my daughter. Or, rather a disease that’s in my flesh which I must needs call mine. Thou art a boil, a plague sore, an embossed carbuncle in my corrupted blood. But I’ll not hide thee. Let shame come when it will. I do not call it. I do not bid the thunder bearer shoot nor tell tales of thee to high judging Jove mend when thou canst be better at leisure. I can be patient. I can stay with Regan, I and my hundred knights.

Lizzie King-Hall: Not altogether so. I looked not for you yet nor am provided for your fit welcome. Give ear, sir, to my sister. For those that mingle, reason with your passion. Must be content to think you old and so. But she knows what she does.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Hold on just a sec. I want to just point one little thing out. and that is. You can barely figure out the right words to say. That’s what’s happening at the end of that. For your fit welcome. Give ear to my sister. For those that mingle, reason with your pet. And must be content to think you old and so. But she knows what. You know what I mean? There’s this wonderful thing that. There’s no end to that sentence. You. You. It. It ends with she knows what she does. He almost flusters you.

Lizzie King-Hall: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Annie Occhiogrosso: You know, he has one of those. He’s gonna have one later. I’m gonna do.

Lizzie King-Hall: I don’t know what I’ll do.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yeah, yeah.

Lizzie King-Hall: For, those that mingle.

Annie Occhiogrosso: The what? Well, for those.

Lizzie King-Hall: Okay, so listen to my sister. For those. Anyone who would.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yeah, yeah.

Lizzie King-Hall: Single reason with your passion.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yes, m. Reason with your passion.

Lizzie King-Hall: Must be content. For those that. For Those. Anyone who would. I’m a little troubled on mingle. Anyone who would, think that. Anyone who would try to apply reason to your passion.

Randall: Yes.

Lizzie King-Hall: Themselves. That you are old. And so. It is so. And. And they would be.

Jeanne Sakata: Right.

Lizzie King-Hall: But, she knows what she does. Oh, my God, please, no, not me. Over to you.

Annie Occhiogrosso: That’s right. That’s exactly right. So that. So hangs at the end of that. Of that. and so, you know, and then you move on. But she knows what she does.

Lizzie King-Hall: Yeah.

Annie Occhiogrosso: And that’s, of course, his wonderful line is this well spoken? Which I think, and then you finally pulled yourself together, and again, this is one. But she knows what she does. Is this well spoken? And you get to start. You’ve had a moment now to think of something more fluid to say, 50 followers. Come on. You know, it goes from there. All right. but I think right there, 50.

Lizzie King-Hall: Is still the top. I think 50 is still the deal. What? 50 followers, is it not? Well, isn’t 50 fine?

Randall: It’s supposed to be 100.

Lizzie King-Hall: I don’t care.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yes, it is supposed to be 100, but we’ve already cut that down. If you go with goneral, it’s 50, right?

Lizzie King-Hall: right, yeah. And then we begin this thing of like. Well, doesn’t 50 sound better? Actually, I. The number has changed.

Annie Occhiogrosso: That offer is no longer. But again, you know, don’t give up the idea that, look, 50 is good. Go with her.

Lizzie King-Hall: 50 would be great.

Annie Occhiogrosso: You know, keep pushing him in her. And now, and this is what I mean about them bargaining the way they bargained in that bargain in the first, and now they’re bargain bargaining with cutting down the number so he will go with the one who gives him the most. Can I add something here?

Jeanne Sakata: So I, I don’t want him to return to my place, but when she’s saying, go back, is it like, no, I don’t want him to come. So am I kind of the ears forward? They’re like, what is she up, to?

Randall: Is that.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Is that right? Yes, it is. Because here’s the thing. Look at how you respond. She says, well, let’s just read that section. Is this well spoken? Let’s take that and then we’ll go back over it. I dare vouch it, sir. Regan.

Lizzie King-Hall: I dare avouch it, sir. What, 50 followers, is it not? Well, what should you need of more yea or so many sith that both charge and danger speak gainst so great? Sith at both charge and danger speak gainst so great a number how in one house should many people under two capture commands hold amity, which is hard, almost impossible.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yeah.

Jeanne Sakata: Why not?

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yeah, go ahead.

Jeanne Sakata: Why might not you, my lord, why might not you, my lord, receive attendance from those that she calls servants? Or from, mine?

Lizzie King-Hall: Why not, my lord? If, then, if. Then they chance to slack you, we could control them. If you will come to me. For now I spy a danger. I entreat you to bring but 5 and 20 to no more will I give place or notice.

Randall: I gave you all and in good time.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Okay, let’s just stop there so I can go back to what Jeannie had said. Yes, Jeannie, I think you’re absolutely right. You don’t want. That’s why I think it starts with from those that she calls servants. Or from mine. You know, you don’t say that. I call servants. And hers. You start with pushing him. Yeah. Or okay. Or mine. I’ll acquiesce to that. Right, yeah. And then you come in with why not, my lord? Then here’s the idea. This is great. If they do something, you know, to not respect you, well, we can take care of them. And now you’re putting in your op, your option here, right? Yeah. I entreat you to bring but 5 and 20. No more will I give place. So now we cut it down from 50 to 5 and 20. And his response, of course is I gave you all. And of course the next line. And I think I kind of give it to you because, it can come out. I’ve heard it come out many ways. And so it either comes out with the idea of. And it’s a good thing because you’re old. M. Because you’re old. Or. Well, we had to wait long enough for it.

Lizzie King-Hall: Yeah.

Annie Occhiogrosso: So. So we’re just going to play with it until you feel comfortable. Do you know, this is the thing about so many of his lines. They’re fraught with meaning. And so you want to be able to play freshly every night and, and see, as long as you’re within the meaning of the line. And we know two now. I mean you, if you can figure out, okay, definitely how it fits. I’ve been looking. I can’t. I’ve seen actresses do it. And it’s can make your blood curdle when they say, you know, and in good time you gave to me, it doesn’t feel like Regan, you know, but again, in the hands of.

Randall: A good actor and in the moment, that’s maybe what she feels.

Annie Occhiogrosso: That’s exactly right. So it’s yours, Lizzie. It’s yours.

Randall: That’s right. To, make the decision of how to render the line in the moment given however, you know.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yeah. So where we’re at now, we’re both of you. I mean all three of you. Thomas too, Randy. Well, you know, chump change. but you. You guys right now, what you’re doing is terrific, fresh and wonderful. And I. And I want to. I want to fill you. Hell, I spend so much time with this stuff that I can’t help but share it. But I never want it to rob you of what you. You have that I don’t. And that’s the freedom to act these roles. I don’t. That freedom is absolutely important. I want to give you as many clues to get your imagination going, but I want. Want you to have the freedom to. To know that in this moment, it led me here or there, you know? so that’s why I’m kind of. Here’s the information, here’s what I know, and then we’ll take it from there. Okay? So that.

Jeanne Sakata: Can I just say one thing? When I was listening to that and I heard. I entreat you to bring about 5 and 20. And I thought, oh, she’s. She did me better. I’m in 20.

Randall: It’s.

Jeanne Sakata: It’s just so interesting. Like it’s. All these new things are shooting at me again.

Annie Occhiogrosso: You’re gonna bring that to life in just a minute. Because you’re the one, right?

Jeanne Sakata: I’m gonna do a message.

Lizzie King-Hall: You don’t need anybody.

Annie Occhiogrosso: That’s right. So, So I gave you all. Let’s. Can we just take it from. Why not, my lord? Regan? Yeah.

Lizzie King-Hall: Why not, my lord? If then they chance to slack ye, we could control them. If you will come to me. For now I spy a danger. I entreat you to bring but 5 and 20. To no more will I give place or notice.

Randall: I gave you all, and in good.

Lizzie King-Hall: Time you gave it.

Randall: Made you my guardians, my depositories, but kept a reservation to be followed with such a number. What must I come to you with five and 20, Regan? Said you so?

Lizzie King-Hall: And speak’d again, my lord. No more with me.

Randall: Those creatures yet do look well favour’d. When others are more wicked, not being the worse stands in some rank of praise. I’ll go with thee. Ay, fifty doth double five and twenty, and thou art twice her love.

Jeanne Sakata: Hear me, my lord. What need you 5 and 20, 10, or 5 to follow in a house where twice so many have a command to tend you?

Lizzie King-Hall: What need one?

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yes. Hold on a sec. Because that’s the bargain. And I think. I think we can really get it down to the. I think you have a little more time. I think you can come in with it. But make one if you can diminish it a little bit more, Lizzie, because, you’re rushing. You say, what need one? I would make one. The largest small. You can see what I mean?

Lizzie King-Hall: Yeah.

Annie Occhiogrosso: M. Yeah.

Jeanne Sakata: Oh, it’s so.

Lizzie King-Hall: Finish the line. You mean, make a point of the fact that that’s only three syllables.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Well, make a point. Point that one.

Lizzie King-Hall: Have a command to tend you what need one.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yes. So. So what’s happening again? I hear have a command to attend you what need one. And my suggestion is.

Lizzie King-Hall: Yeah, yeah, right.

Annie Occhiogrosso: I think you have it. but you see, Jeannie, that is the bargaining. That’s who you get what need 20. Why? Because she just got off the hook by saying, listen, I’m only going to accept 25. And what has he just said? Listen, you. You’re 50 is better than 20, right. I’m going with you. And then you think, I gotta stop, this. Wait, 25, 15. How can. What can I put here to make him not come with me? And she. Can you top this? She does. And we go right back to. I agree with my sister, but she comes too short.

Jeanne Sakata: Yes.

Annie Occhiogrosso: You put the capper on.

Jeanne Sakata: You can just really see the sisterly dynamic, even in these life and death state. It’s such a. This scene is amazing.

Annie Occhiogrosso: It is. It truly is. The whole play is. We were saying, Sharon’s one of our students. Yesterday, he said, well, when do we do it? When can we do it? I said, find the money. Find the money. So. But it is. It’s. It’s beyond brilliant. someone once said that to a. To tackle Lear is to be a flea on a behemoth’s back. And it’s sort of true, you know, But I think if you do. I think what we’re getting at here. And again, I thank you because you’re so willing to go with it, is there’s a simplicity in all of it, really.

Jeanne Sakata: Yes.

Annie Occhiogrosso: This large play and large thoughts and feelings and passions, but yet on some levels, it’s quite simple. You know what I’m saying? Right. so. So that’s the bottom what need one. And then, of course, you take it.

Jeanne Sakata: From there, you know, because it makes perfect sense. And yet, as an audience member, the audience member in me is feeling so much for Lear.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yeah.

Lizzie King-Hall: Ah, yeah, yeah.

Jeanne Sakata: I mean, just a short time ago, he commanded. He was king. You know, he commanded everything. And now he’s like. He’s. He has to. 150, 25, 10, 1. You just feel like his manhood being stripped, like.

Annie Occhiogrosso: And.

Jeanne Sakata: And it’s almost like. It’s almost like the knights. To me, it. They’re like toy soldiers. You know how kids argue. Well, you have 10. And I almost feel like, oh, you can see him, crumbling back into childhood. Like, you know, I want my hundred soldiers at 50, 20. I mean, it’s every. Every reduction in number is such an assault on his. You know, as an audience member. That’s what I’m feeling. As a sister, of course. It makes perfect sense.

Randall: I think an assault.

Jeanne Sakata: Genius in this play is that, oh, my God, he was king just a short while ago.

Randall: It’s an assault on his identity.

Lizzie King-Hall: Yes.

Randall: Being stripped away is his very. What he thought he was, and he’s not that.

Jeanne Sakata: Yeah.

Randall: And he’s just a human being, and he’s naked.

Annie Occhiogrosso: You should feel for him. But again, I have to keep reminding everyone it’s the tragedy of King Lear. He brought it on himself.

Jeanne Sakata: Yes.

Annie Occhiogrosso: So it’s not. That’s when. That’s why I always find that when it’s simply two evil sisters and a good sister, and he chose the evil over the good. We have no play. We don’t. The whole point is, it’s this. And. And I read the other day that one of the things we should be careful of is trying to make it a realistic history. It’s a legend. It’s a. It’s a tale. It’s a. You know, it’s, We still play human being. You have to. Within that play, the realism. But. But I mean, in terms of dressing him as a CEO and all of that kind of thing. But I. But I would say that, I think you should feel that. I think members m. Of the audience will be torn. Yeah. Because ultimately we should leave the theater. Not able to stop thinking about it or seeing it on the. You know, when 9, 11 happened, the line, from Trojan women, that kept coming back to me. Greeks, you have found out ways to torture that are not Greek. And I, That line came back to me because innocent people going to work, that’s not a fair fight. You know, I mean that. But these plays will. They’ll haunt you. They’ll stay with you. And in the midst of some very modern moment, you’ll think, oh, my God. Yeah, that’s. I saw that in Leah. That’s what. You know. so they should. I Think you’re right to have those feelings, to be the actress who has to do Goneril. But also to say, if I were in the audience, I’d have compassion for him.

Jeanne Sakata: so, I mean, you know, to, to. To take all these hits in one in. In the span of just a couple of minutes, you know, it’s like every. Every blow, it takes more and more away from him.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yes.

Jeanne Sakata: And as someone who used to have everything up until a short time ago, I think that’s why you feel it like, you know.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yeah. Okay.

Randall: Everything. Not just a newcomer to the, kingship, but he’s had this power for years, right? So to have it, to watch him being stripped of it is like, okay, where are we going from here? Where we go from here?

Jeanne Sakata: Wow.

Randall: Yeah.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Okay, so can we just take that sequence one more time? is this well spoken? You know, that I dare vouch, sir, what, 50 followers that. That little section that leads to. Okay, What? Need one.

Randall: Okay, okay, let’s take it a little further back. I can be patient.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yep.

Randall: I can stay with Regan I and my hundred nights.

Lizzie King-Hall: Not altogether so. I look not for you yet, nor am provided for your fit welcome. Give ear, sir, to my sister. For those that mingle reason with your passion must be content to think you old. Sorry. Let me start over.

Annie Occhiogrosso: It’s good, though, start over. But I liked it.

Randall: I can be patient. I can stay with Regan I and my hundred knights.

Lizzie King-Hall: Not altogether so. I looked not for you yet, nor am provided for your fit welcome. Give ear, sir, to my sister. For those that mingle reason with your passion must be content to. To think you old and so. But she knows what she does.

Randall: Well spoken.

Lizzie King-Hall: I dare avouch it, sir. What, 50 followers, is it not? Well, what should you need of,

Annie Occhiogrosso: More yea or so many sith at.

Lizzie King-Hall: Both charge and danger speak gainst so great a number. How in one house should many people under two commands hold amity? Tis hard, almost impossible.

Jeanne Sakata: Why might not you, my lord, receive attendance from those that she calls servants? Or from mine?

Lizzie King-Hall: Why not, my lord? If then they chance to slack ye, we could control them. If you will come to me. For now I spy a danger. I entreat you to bring but 5 and 20. To no more will I give place or notice.

Randall: I gave you all, and in good.

Lizzie King-Hall: Time you gave it.

Randall: Made you my guardians, my depositories, but kept a reservation to be followed with such a number. What must I come to you with five and 20, Regan? Said you so, and speak again, my lord.

Lizzie King-Hall: No, More with me.

Randall: Those wicked creatures yet do look well favoured, when other are, ah, more wicked, not being the worst, stand in some rank of praise. I’ll go with thee. Thy fifty yet doth double five and twenty, and thou art twice her love.

Jeanne Sakata: Hear me, my lord. What need you 5 and 20, 10, or 5 to follow in a house where twice so many have a command to tend you?

Lizzie King-Hall: What need one?

Randall: Reason not the need. Our, poorest beggars are in the poorest things superfluous.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Allow not.

Randall: Allow not. Nature more than nature needs. Man’s life is cheap as beasts. Thou art a lady. If only to go warm were gorgeous. Why, nature needs not what thou gorgeous wearest, which scarcely keeps thee warm. But for true need, O new heaven, keep me in patience, patience I need. You see me here, you gods, A poor old man, as full of grief as age, wretched and bolt. If it be you that stirs these daughters hearts against their father, fool me not so much to bear it tamely, but touch me with noble anger. And let not women’s weapons, water drops stain my man’s cheeks. No, you unnatural hags. I will have such revenges on you both that all the world shall. I will do such things. What they are yet I know not. But they shall be the terrors of the earth. Or. You think I’ll, weep. No, I’ll not weep. I have full cause for weeping. But this heart shall break into a hundred thousand flaws, or ere I’ll weep. Oh, fool, I shall go mad.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Good. Nice, guys. Very nice, Very nice. Takes off. You know, it doesn’t have to be planted or this and that. It. It just takes off. And that’s. That’s wonderful, Randy. I want to add one thing after that dash. What did he say?

Jeanne Sakata: I want to do it now. I want to do the play.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Randy, at that dash. That’s another one of those punctuations that are rarely seen. But you know the scene where he. Where he talks about, hysteria. Pasico. You know, the. The whole idea of his heart.

Randall: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Annie Occhiogrosso: In his chest. And the fool. Thomas, you don’t know the fool’s line there, do you? Beat it down.

Randall: What? Seems that.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yeah, it’s okay if you don’t. I so do.

Nathan Agin: I don’t.

Randall: I really don’t.

Annie Occhiogrosso: but at any rate, you do remember what I’m talking about. That’s why I asked you. Right? but at any rate, the fool tells Leah to. To beat down his heart, beat it down, fight against it. And I think this is A moment where it’s starting to come up again. I’ll do such things that I know. Not like, you know. Because if you can work that up.

Randall: Almost inarticulate.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yeah.

Randall: The words.

Lizzie King-Hall: I asked a question about that moment. Is that real? I. I don’t think it’s a mistake, but they shall be the terrors of the earth. And then it’s a question mark.

Randall: Yeah. It’s odd, isn’t it? Yeah. Oh, I pondered that too.

Jeanne Sakata: I’ve.

Lizzie King-Hall: I’ve spent time pondering.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Well, I think the question mark goes hand in hand with, I don’t know what they are. So I. You know, I think it has. It implies the question of the terrors of the earth. Of the earth. You know, in his anger. Do you know, Randy, it’s kind of like what we’ve.

Randall: Like a general question.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yeah. Yeah.

Randall: I don’t know specifically what my revenge will be. Right.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Think about. I mean, it’s almost a question to them. You. You know, the idea. Not that you want an answer from them, but it’s, so hard to explain how it works. That’s why modern texts make it an exclamation, but it’s not an exclamation. It’s. It’s. It’s as if to say, do you want,

Jeanne Sakata: I love the question mark? You know, for him to say I. I will do that. What they are. I don’t know.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yes. That’s it.

Nathan Agin: Right.

Jeanne Sakata: The terrors of the earth, maybe. But they’re coming. M. You know, it’s. It’s so human.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yeah.

Randall: Right. Right.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yep.

Randall: Ah.

Annie Occhiogrosso: The other thing. The other, Well, I don’t want to spend. I. I don’t want to do too much text. Actual punctuation. Because you’re already kind of following it on your own. The only thing I want to just keep reminding you of is when. In order for the caps to work, when you hit lowercase, you need to allow them to be lowercase. Otherwise, you know, you can’t differentiate. The other thing too, is, There are places where, if you look at the scansion, the second, the fourth, the sixth, eighth, tenth is the stressed beat. Right. So you get things like, I set him there, sir. but his own. There was a line that I heard. I’d have to hear it all over again, actually. Oh, it’s little things like, Let me just use this as an example here. If you do love old men, we say, if you do love old men, the scansion is, if you do love old men, that Again, it needs, it needs that little stress. Not the kind of stress you give to a cap, but again that, that stress. The thing about scansion that I always find it’s not so much the ta dump to dump as much as it is. You’re speaking from the heart. Which is why in Goner, when Goneril comes in, she’s ah. And she says why not by the hand, you know that, that section, she’s in. She’s in verse. She never, she never just lets go of, you know, and does a kind of common language. It’s. It’s done. She’s meaning everything she says. And I think that’s true. You have. I always look to where they use prose. Where does it. Where is. You know, where does it change? but it doesn’t in this scene. So everybody’s, everybody’s speaking from the heart. I think you had one Regan, where you say I am from home. do you know which one I think it’s before Goneril comes in.

Randall: No.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Or after gonorrhea.

Lizzie King-Hall: I am now from home. About 15, 14. 95. 96. 97. 98.

Annie Occhiogrosso: 1498. Yeah. And it’s. Again it’s. It’s a simple thing but. But again I. I am now from home. As opposed to I’m now from home.

Lizzie King-Hall: Yeah.

Annie Occhiogrosso: You see how it’s in the fourth I. Right.

Lizzie King-Hall: Because it would be I am now from home. And yeah, well, it’s actually elided isn’t. I am now from home and out of that provision I am. I am not.

Jeanne Sakata: She.

Lizzie King-Hall: She would ally the am. I am now from home.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yeah, yeah, yeah, out of that provision.

Lizzie King-Hall: So. But I see what you mean. I’m now from home.

Annie Occhiogrosso: It’s. Yeah.

Lizzie King-Hall: So that is. I. I hadn’t heard you say that before any. In the time I’ve worked with you on this. Would you not to have to quantify it which is simplistic but when you’re doing this kind of work, would you almost say that a capital is more stressed than a stressed beat in the.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yes, I would. Because, because, because you have, you have five stresses basically in a natural normal line that the idea of this is why I say that you start off by hitting the capital but you end up interpreting it.

Lizzie King-Hall: Yeah.

Jeanne Sakata: Okay.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Do you see? So it’s not just about coming down hard on. It’s why is that why that’s That word nature that I was. I was explaining terribly before. But again that idea of that word nature holds a very big meaning in this Play. And so when you see it M. Even if it’s in an unstressed position, that will happen often. Not that often. Usually caps fall in stress positions. but I think that it’s more about the interpretation, the offices of nature, bond of childhood bond, you know, so. So again, it’s. It’s the importance of the word rather than, the hitting of it. Yeah. Does that make sense?

Lizzie King-Hall: Yeah, the scansion just becomes rhythm and helping you really? Scansion helps me memorize.

Annie Occhiogrosso: I. Yeah, yeah.

Lizzie King-Hall: But then the capitals get lifted.

Annie Occhiogrosso: What I always love too, is how to get to that, you know. No, Reagan. Thou shalt never have my curse. Thy tender hefted nature shall not give. shall not give the or. So that. That again, you. Even though you’ve ended that line before it, it continues to fall into the stress in the second. What I’m looking at right now is, learn. Thou shalt never have my curse. That speech. are you there? So you get. No, Reagan. Thou shalt never have my curse. Thy tender hefted nature shall not give. You see, the give as opposed give the or. Thy tender nature shall not give the or to harshness. So the or, because it’s in a stress position, you want the stress to fall there rather than to just ream them through, without stressing at all. Does that make sense? That’s what I mean. From the heart, it’s. Oh, yeah, yeah. particularly when there’s no punctuation at the end of that line. Her eyes are fierce but thine to comfort and not burn. You know, it falls into the next line with the stress on comfort. At any rate, as I said, I don’t want to do too much. You know, what happens is we have this short period of time and we’re going to start to introduce all these different elements that people have been teaching you, know, lifetimes with. And so, I think just to give you a little smattering to the degree that it. That it helps understand what’s happening. Any other questions? What were you going to say, Randy? I’m sorry?

Randall: That it sparks the imagination, number one. At all.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Number one. You know, we were working with Morris Carnavsy. He came out to our theater directed learning and. But he also directed Ivanov and had. He taught classes. And one girl got up and she did, I think, a monologue from Anthony and Cleopatra. And he said to her, well, you simply have no imagination. And I thought, oh my God, that was the kiss of death. What do you do when the great Morris Karnowski tells you you have no imagination. Because that meant so much to him. because so much of his work came from that. The imagination. So, Good. Anything else?

Randall: I did find the line you were talking about. He says, lear says, owe me my heart, my rising heart, but down. And then the fool says, cry to it, uncle, as the cockney did to the eels when she put him in the pace to life. She napped him or the coxcombs on the cock come from the stick and cried, down. Walton’s down. So.

Annie Occhiogrosso: So. And what he’s saying basically is don’t allow. Don’t allow yourself to go there. Don’t allow. Fight it. Fight it. you know, and. And it truly is the beginning of a heart attack. It’s the sense of the heart is going. Then you have that line at the end of this scene. My heart would break in a thousand. Don’t you have.

Randall: Yes. A thousand, hundred thousand flaws.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yeah. So good. Good.

Randall: How do you feel, ladies?

Lizzie King-Hall: It is sort of like, I don’t know if the word is bittersweet, but, like, working on this and then knowing that we’re not actually doing it, like taking care of a baby that I don’t get to keep.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yeah.

Randall: It’s really making me wish. It would be great. Be fun.

Jeanne Sakata: It’s so thrilling.

Nathan Agin: I mean, we had a, Yeah, we had a. We did a checkoff scene. and Libby, Apple, who ran Oregon Shakespeare Festival, was directing it. And we. There were a couple people in the audience who were just like, I want to see those people do the play now. Because I’ve spent so much time with these characters that I want to go see, like, what happens next.

Randall: What happens next play was that Nathan.

Nathan Agin: What’s that? We did a scene from, uncle, Vanya.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Ah.

Randall: yes, it was.

Nathan Agin: It was the top of. I think it’s the top of Act 2. There’s a rainstorm. And, the professors asleep in the chair. And, that’s how. That’s how the scene starts. And, Yeah, it was.

Annie Occhiogrosso: But.

Nathan Agin: But, yes, I. I share the sentiment.

Randall: And.

Nathan Agin: And, above wanting to see you guys do this. And, I mean, I think it would be just fun. And I don’t know logistically, necessarily how it worked, whether it be the same people, whether you could get everyone for that amount of time, but to take, like, a year and just do this on an entire play and then block it, then go produce it.

Randall: Yeah.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yeah.

Nathan Agin: If you could actually have the time to really go through everything, and not Feel rushed. and, you know, I think that would be. I think. I think it would also create some really amazing theater. I think the end product would be really, Really different and really exciting and would, stand out for, You know. And I know they did the. The bridge project. I don’t know if they’re still doing that, but there was like, It was kind of a UK America collaboration where they did,

Annie Occhiogrosso: I think.

Nathan Agin: I know that. I think they did it a couple times, but it would. They took two plays in repertory and they toured them around. And, you know, there was some actors in there, so that helped sell tickets. But, It was this kind of idea of. Of probably trying to recreate repertory theater to some degree but make it commercially viable. But,

Randall: But.

Nathan Agin: But yeah, I think. I think, the product speaks for itself. I mean, and that’s always been the experience of people who have been sitting in on this. Even though we’re doing just one scene, the result is. Is undeniable. And to see how far it’s gone, even just in four weeks, it’s, you know, and of course those people who are sitting in and listening to all the minute conversations that you guys are having, it just opens up so much more. It’s really, You know, we’ve. I think we worked on the scene a couple of years ago, but there’s still so much more to talk about. And every actor brings their own take on it, their own perspective. So you’re going to hear lines differently. They’re going to, you know, say something, bring up a point, you know, and so it’s. It never gets old. Even as an observer. yeah, yeah.

Jeanne Sakata: I love the specifics of the characters that we’re talking about. When. When you said Annie and Randy, Goner and the beauty, you know, somebody to. Appearances are very, you know, we all know that person. Right, right. We all know that, you know, that woman m. With a certain kind of social standing and, and reputation and And beauty and fashion and. Right. And so, It just. That was so helpful because I’ve never seen Conroe that way. But it makes perfect sense.

Randall: Sense.

Jeanne Sakata: It makes absolutely perfect sense. But I love the specificity that we’re talking about of the sister dynamic because, you know, we’re competing with each other. But then our great competitor is Cordelia, because Dad always loved her best. You know, it’s just fascinating. The family dynamics are fascinating.

Annie Occhiogrosso: When you bring Cordelia into the mix, you. You do see, that she is so totally different. From the two of you. Yes. I think, too, that when. Remember when we. We worked on that first scene with. With Cordelia last time when we did this, that the whole idea of Cordelia just. Just not able to lie, flatter any of. She can’t do it. It’s not even a matter of what she desires not to do. It is not in her to do her. In her nature. That’s right. There’s that word. You know, it’s just so. I mean, you almost feel ridiculous saying what a brilliant play it is. Of course. but every time I work on it, these different discoveries come up. And you’re right, Nathan. Different actors bring some. Something to it.

Randall: You know, that’s what’s wonderful about the theater. Because.

Nathan Agin: And I think what’s, you know, not only does it create, a great performance for the audience, but this is the work that you guys have to do night after night. So why not make it something really compelling and interesting for yourselves that you actually have to play, like, you know, every night rather than, Okay, yeah. you know, you just. You get bored two weeks into it, going like, yeah, I’m the evil sister.

Randall: Great.

Nathan Agin: You know, but it’s because it’s like this. This is your work. This is what you’re doing.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Ah.

Nathan Agin: And I think anything that can stimulate that. That even if the audience isn’t aware of every little detail you’re in color, you’re putting in this. This is the work you’re doing. This is how you’re spending your time.

Randall: So it.

Nathan Agin: I think it brings it so much more alive for the actors, too.

Jeanne Sakata: Yeah, I. I just love the comma. Because really, that just made it so fresh, you know, just even that mini second when.

Randall: Yep.

Jeanne Sakata: What you said, Annie, about this is all I meant to say.

Randall: Yes.

Jeanne Sakata: but then. Oh, that leads to this. This thought. I. That’s just one of the best things I’ve ever heard about doing Shakespeare. I’m just so sorry. I’m sorry. I’m learning that so late in life.

Lizzie King-Hall: Hey, it sucks when you get those gems and you’re like, oh, that made me really good when I was 27.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Right, right.

Jeanne Sakata: Wow, that just makes it so fun to do.

Randall: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Ronnie and I just did a, performance for Shakespeare’s birthday and had the nerve, I guess it would be called, to do, Helena and Demetrius and Desdemona. And, you know, but the nice thing about it was that we were able to play with each other, knowing, of course, these are roles that we’d never do at this age. But, But it was the same thing, Lizzie, where you think, oh, gosh, I wish I were, you know, 20 again just to do it.

Lizzie King-Hall: I’m taking a lot of hope from the fact that Geraldine James is about to play rosalind at the RSC at 72.

Randall: Wow.

Lizzie King-Hall: They have an old. They’ve. They’ve upped everyone’s age by, into that range.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yes, yes.

Lizzie King-Hall: You just can imagine all the richness and humor, sense of play that’s going to be available because you know when you’re 20, that you’re not doing it right.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yeah.

Lizzie King-Hall: That you just are the right vessel.

Jeanne Sakata: But.

Lizzie King-Hall: But you know that in 20 years you’ll look back with.

Randall: I think it was you that said. And I was just thinking about it the other day, just randomly, was that by the time you learned how to play Juliet, you’re too old to play her.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yes, that’s right. That’s often been said of that part is that, you know, people like to think that a 14 year old, she might look sweet out there, but boy, what Juliet has to do on that stage, it’s very hard for a 14 year old to be able to encompass that, you know, and that’s the production that’s being done all over right now. everybody seems to be glomming onto Romeo and Juliet. I’m. I’m in the midst of a. I don’t know if you folks have ever heard of the Russian director Ephros. Anatoly Efros. He’s gone now, but he directed Randy in the Marriage at the Guthrie Theater. Spoke only Russian, had a translator. but we learned more from him, I think it’s fair to say, than just about any director we had ever worked. I sat in the audience watching him the whole time. But he just, he’s. There are three books that he’s written and about directing and about the joy of rehearsal and, But he talks about Romeo and Juliet and he has introduced ideas about that play to me that, For instance, he talks about the nurse, knowing that Lady Capulet is going to bring in the news about Paris marrying Juliet. And so when she looks for Juliet, she says, where is this girl? Come. Oh, I can. And the mother and the. And the nurse reminis. And the nurse reminisces because they know this is the moment that she is. We’re going to give her off in marriage. It’s a whole different scene than just, wow, blusters through. And then he describes.

Jeanne Sakata: Oh, wow, that’s.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yeah. And then he describes Juliet on the balcony. And he says, she leans her head and on the balcony and looks up and then her. Her arm. She leans over and just sort of swings her arm. Romeo, Romeo. So she knows nobody is seeing her. And it’s this private moment that she has. The way he describes it is so beautiful that you think, I want to do this production tomorrow. Who is that?

Jeanne Sakata: What is the name of.

Annie Occhiogrosso: His name is Anatoly Ephros. And he died, by the way, after an interrogation, during the.

Randall: When the Soviet Union was still in full swing.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Wow.

Jeanne Sakata: Can you still get those books?

Annie Occhiogrosso: Oh, yes.

Randall: Yeah.

Annie Occhiogrosso: But very, you know, when he talks.

Randall: About Chekhov and when he talks about Shakespeare. Very insightful.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Wonderful, wonderful. Just reminds you book that you were.

Jeanne Sakata: Talking about last week.

Randall: Oh, the Actor’s Eye. And. Yeah, I think so. But it’s kind of pricey. You gotta find a used copy and hunt it up. Maybe it’s. Yeah. Because it hasn’t been reissued and it.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Was only issued in paperback. So there are very few of them, I think, available. I think you can get. The cheapest I’ve seen it is about $35 now. but it’s a wonderful book because it’s Morris teaching a class. and so he, you know, they ask him questions and he. And he answers them. But he’s. He’s so insightful, again, about all these different. Different roles and an approach to. To acting. Mostly Shakespeare though, I think. Right. Randy in it.

Randall: Well, even when he was with the Group Theater, he was, a lover of the classics, you know. And in fact, when the Group Theater ended, they were in rehearsal for Three Sisters, I think, Clifford Odets had written an adaptation of Three Sisters, and they were preparing it, but then it closed up. and then he was blacklisted during the McCarthy era and then was invited by John Houseman to go to the Stratford, Connecticut Shakespeare Festival to be a part of their season. And that’s when he did his Shylock and he did Lear and he did all kinds of roles with them for years. But he. What he brought to Shakespeare was the work that they had done with the Group Theater, you know, in trying to find an American style and a way of getting into a script that. What kind of acting.

Annie Occhiogrosso: And then his wife Phoebe Brown, taught Shakespeare, and tried, to take what he did on stage and turn it into a way of. Of working with actors. She was just magnificent to work with.

Randall: they both were.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Yeah.

Lizzie King-Hall: I. I know we have to close, but I’ve just noticed. I went on Amazon, and, it is $341. but there’s one review, and it’s a five star review, and it’s my friend’s dad who used to run UMKC MFA program.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Oh, my God.

Jeanne Sakata: Classic.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Really, really full circle.

Jeanne Sakata: Oh, I really wanted that. That insight about Lady Capulet and the nurse. Wow, that would make that whole scene because they’re saying, oh, we’re giving her away, but remember when she’s just five years.

Randall: Yes, yes, yes, yes. Beautiful. I love that.

Annie Occhiogrosso: And he does it with Seagull. He does it. He does it with, Got the other. He does three plays in that book. and the same thing happens where he just throws something at you that you think, oh, my God, I can’t wait to play that. That’s wonderful. you know, so nice. Have we gone over? Have we, Ah, are we.

Nathan Agin: There is, there is no time limit.

Annie Occhiogrosso: You can.

Nathan Agin: You can stay here for the rest of the night talking about theater.

Randall: Another enjoyable session.

Jeanne Sakata: Yes.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Thank you so much.

Randall: Thank you.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Wonderful.

Lizzie King-Hall: Thank you.

Jeanne Sakata: Thank you, Randy, Annie. And thank you, Nathan.

Nathan Agin: Thank all of you guys.

Annie Occhiogrosso: Thomas, thanks for seeing that script close by. Thomas. Yeah, thanks, Tom.

Nathan Agin: Thanks, Lizzie. Thank you, everybody.

Randall: Thank you. Good night, everyone. Next week.