Week 1 Session – “Curiosity and Carnal Embrace” – Tom Stoppard’s “Arcadia” – 2 scenes with Septimus – The Rehearsal Room [Video, Audio, and Transcript versions]

Week 1 – Arcadia – 2 scenes with Septimus – The Rehearsal Room

Nathan Agin: Hi everybody, I’m Nathan Agin. Welcome back to the Working Actors Journey. And we are here for another series in the rehearsal room. this is a project that started four and a half years ago during the pandemic when we all had a lot of time on our hands. And it was what we could do with all of that time to really dive deeply, into material, and to see what we can mine from it. So we’ve been exploring just one scene over the course of a month. And this month we’re going to be diving into a couple scenes from Tom Stoppard’s Arcadia. I personally have a little bit of connection to this play, so I’m excited to see what this group digs, out of it, what, what I might have missed and what. You know, it’s just such a great play. If you’re not familiar with it, if you are, you know, it’s funny and beautiful and hilarious. but, you know, I’m excited for, we have a number of new artists joining us this round. for those familiar, and I was just thinking about this. Every month we do this, it gets further and further from when John Barton did his Playing Shakespeare series. So it’s going to sound more and more esoteric the longer I do this and the more times I mention that. But for those people familiar with that series, I kind of feel like this. That was definitely a big inspiration, for this to start. And I see this as kind of a springboard off of that work. those sessions were scripted to some degree and planned out. But this is raw, unrehearsed. You get to see what is the collaborative process really like, what to a group of professional artists do when they get together and they want to bring material to life. So I’m very excited that everybody here is, on board to do that and excited to do that. for those who are new here, what you’re going to see is, like I said, not planned out, not a final performance in any of the weeks. It’s just a continuation of the work in progress. and the rehearsal room I think, does a number of different things, but I believe it’s really, at its core is about collaboration. It’s about continuing that legacy, of learning by doing and by learning from those who have been doing this for 30, 40, 50 years. it’s also an opportunity for us to be more conscious about casting, when it comes to age or gender or race than maybe some theaters feel they can be we can explore these things because, it’s all about the text here. It’s all about the work. So people can play roles they never thought they’d have a chance to play, or they never thought they’d be typed in and, or for whatever number of reasons. We’ve had a lot of actors be able to do parts, like that. And you’ll probably see some of that, come out tonight. Maybe some of the artists will talk about that. what I love about this session, and you may hear this, we can bring artists together from all over. right now we have people all over the country, which is really wonderful. And it’s also lovely that you can reunite artists that maybe haven’t worked together because they just haven’t been in the same geographic space for a while. but now, they can play together again, which is great. and so, yeah, that’s what we’re trying to do here. please, consider subscribing. we’re posting new weekly sessions on YouTube for free for everybody to enjoy. so you can click for notifications of that. You can support the project if you’d like via, Patreon. Get access to all the sessions a few days early. There’s also a podcast version and I want to say a quick thank you to our patrons. Some, of our patrons, Joan, Michelle, Jim Magdalene, Ebar, Claudia, Cliff and Jeff, thank you very much for keeping some of the administrative lights on for us. and this, you know, even though we’re recording this, think of YouTube as like a discussion. If you have a question, if you have a comment, leave it below. I’ll, I do try to forward those on to the artists and we can keep the discussion going. But, enough for me. Let’s get to the work. I will do my producer thing and go, go to the back of the theater and let, let these guys have fun. we’ll do a quick introduction of everybody and then we’ll get to the work. even though you’ve heard enough of me, I’ll just say I’m Nathan. I live in very rural Northern California. Did live in L. A for a number of years. Did theater down there, Worked with a number of these people there. Mostly I do audiobooks now and produce this. so, that’s what I’m up to. I’ll, ah, turn it over to our esteemed director Brendan. He, will take it from there and I hope you guys have a great first session.

Brendon Fox: Thanks, Nathan. I’m Brendan Fox. playing the role of director. M pronouns. He, him. I’m M. A director, teacher, producer. I’m based, in Massachusetts, outside of Worcester. And, I mix up my time between freelance directing, teaching, at undergrad and graduate schools occasionally, as well as, As of this past Sept. I’m the new artistic director of Peterborough Players in New Hampshire. so I’m a huge fan of Stoppard, which you’ll hear obviously a lot more about. But I’m excited to see all these faces. And I’ll pass it to Chris.

Chris Guilmet: Hello, I’m Chris Guilmet I am, currently in Buffalo, New York, where it is like 12 degrees. but, I’ve lived all over, used to live in la, have worked with Brendan, and have worked with Jeffrey many times. Worked with Jeffrey. I first saw Acadia in 1996 at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival when I was like in my late 20s. And that was one of those theater experiences that you have where you go, oh my God. And it was three hours long. And I was like, why is it over so soon? and I’ve been in, utterly besotted by the play ever since. So I’m super thrilled to be doing this and to be playing a part that left me about 20 years ago in terms of castability. So this is very exciting. who’s next?

Brendon Fox: You want to pass it, Chris?

Chris Guilmet: I’ll pass the baton to Jeffrey.

Geoffrey Wade: Okay. Hi, I’m Jeffrey, Jeffrey Wade.

Geoffrey Wade: I love these things. I’ve directed about a half dozen of them, which I just love doing. This is the first one I’ve actually been an actor in which, everything worked out. But this is always a play I’ve always wanted to do. I never, never had a chance. The audition. Never quite got it. And a part much like Chris, that I always wanted to do. I think Septimus speech in, actually in Act 2 at the beginning, where he talks about the long walk that humanity is. It’s just one of the great, great speeches in all of drama. It’s a fantastic play. I’ve worked with Brendan, as an actor quite a few years ago. It was when Obama was running for president. I remember that we did as you like it. It was terrific. I’ve worked with, Chris, directed him. And this is just fantastic. I’m in Los Angeles, so, I mean, we could hardly be further apart, walking around in a T shirt. It’s windy, but it’s warm. And, I’m just thrilled to be doing This. I love this play, and I’ve always wanted to do this part. And, like, Chris, I’m maybe even more years beyond it, but it’s so great. All right, Taya, how about you?

Téa Guarino: Hey, everyone. My name is Téa My pronouns are she, her. I’m, playing Thomasina in the play. I don’t have a. Like a.

Téa Guarino: I’ve actually never read the play until I just read the play. So I. It’s exciting. It’s such a cool world to live in. So I’m really excited to do this with you all. I’ve worked with Brendan. we did a show at Connecticut Rep. We just did a reading together at, Westport County Playhouse, and that was fun. yeah, I’m based in New York. I live in New Jersey. And, yeah, I’m an actor. I just recently graduated from Rutgers University. Mason Gross. So that’s a fun post grad time. yeah, that’s. That’s me. I’m really excited to work with all of you. I am gonna pass it to Jennifer.

Jennifer Le Blanc: Hi. my name is Jennifer Le Blanc. My pronouns are she, her, hers. I’m in Oakland, California. this is my first time doing this, so that’s exciting. I have worked with Brendan and Dr. Kate before. this summer, we did Troilus and Cressida in Prague, which was really fun. I have seen this play before and loved it. And I love Tom Stoppard. but the only play of his that I’ve done before was the Real Thing. I had a good time doing that many years ago. But, this is my first time with this text, and it’s delightfully juicy, so I’m grateful to be here.

Dr. Kate Moncrief: I think that leaves me great. I’m Dr. Kate Moncrieff. in my day job, I’m the head of the humanities and arts department at Worcester Polytechnic Institute in Worcester, Massachusetts. Very cold here in Worcester. theatrically, I work as a dramaturg and text coach and also as an intimacy choreographer. I specialize in Shakespeare, so my PhD is in Shakespeare. I love heightened language. Anything in that world. A, million years ago, I did my master’s degree comps in 19th century British literature, so it’s nice to be in that world, in the world of Arcadia. This is a play I have seen, that I have read, that I have taught, but I have not worked on a full production of it. So I’m really excited to be your dramaturg for this adventure tonight. I’ve worked with both Jen and Brendan. Jen as she mentioned on Troilus and Cressida. Brendan and I have shared many projects together. lots of Shakespeare.

Brendon Fox: And one thing I should mention that Dr. Kate and Jennifer didn’t mention was it was an all women Troilus and Cressida. So it was pretty exciting and was my first time working on that. also a dense and naughty in all sense of the word play like Arcadia in many ways. And I’ve never I directed this play my first year when I worked at Washington College, a small liberal arts school in Maryland. which is where Dr. K and I met. but we did not work together on that. But that was my only time working on this play. It’s been in my brain for years. Real Thing was the first one that I read, Jennifer and I was blown away. I got to work on an acting class in college and then I just was ravenous for all of Stoppard’s plays after that. And I did get to play Claudius and Rosencrankand Guildenstern in college which was fun because I actually had already played Claudius in the OG version. And that was a lot of fun to be able to wrap my head around his world. But I just also wanted to just say another shout out to Nathan for doing this. It’s been a second since I’ve done one of these and I think it’s always a fun challenge to do theater at any time in history. But we’re also in a moment where budget seemed to be tight and time is tight and precious resources. And I think to have something like this that gets to go out into the world that is pure process and reminds people of the importance of that I think is it just. I can’t say enough about the value of that and the brainchild of Nathan’s. And I think it says something that’s been going on as long as it has and the amount of artists that want to be involved is is pretty incredible. So and I’m glad that Nathan mentioned about the comments because something I’m excited about that I remembered when he mentioned that was the feedback that can come from those watching these that sometimes we get to then address in a future session. So that’s, you know, fingers crossed on that. That I think would be great. So I just want to share that with anyone who is watching these and please don’t be shy about putting things, comments, questions, in the comments that we could hopefully get to them before all this is over. for those. Since all of you have worked with me, but I think it’s, you know, I don’t mind it. Think it’s worth saying, as Nathan said, all about collaboration. I feel the same. Table work is very important to me. And I like to think of this today, tonight and today and over the next couple weeks as sort of our first dates together on this play. And I think to me that would. It would reflect if we were sitting around an actual table rather than our virtual one of, just taking time line by line and talking about the play, about the characters and sort of. I like to think of table work, to me in the most robust way is the macro and the micro. That on the micro level, that to give ourselves permission to go line by line and beat by beat for everyone. Not just the people saying the text, but those receiving it and even those who are not in the same scene. But to, you know, inevitably things bubble to the surface, right. Connections are made that surprise us. That’s why I think it’s important for me not to doing table work with those people just in the scene, but those initial rehearsals to involve everyone, because then everyone gets to contribute to say, oh, my gosh, I didn’t realize this actually is brought up again. And especially with Stoppard, right. He’s all about echoes, always, always about concentric circles. So, I think that’s important on the micro and on the macro. Hopefully we can also. Even though we’re just working on two scenes, what are those big picture ideas that come out to us that as we start to reflect between the sessions as well. I hope we can take time at the beginning of every subsequent session to take a moment to say, in our busy lives, did anything pop up from last week that you’ve been thinking about, or whether it’s something in your scene or the other scene, that. Can we talk about discovering what the tone might be or the big ideas, a theme that might be developing. That’s why I was excited when Nathan. I talked about this, of doing two really different scenes, both linked by Septimus, but, I think present fun challenges in their own way, but also hopefully finding ways to make connections. any thoughts from the group on that? In terms of, that approach, in terms of looking at the boots on the ground versus the, you know, the drone’s eye view? How do we feel about that?

Geoffrey Wade: Yeah, it’s great. I mean, I. When I try to describe what these things are to other people, I say it’s like getting, you know, eight glorious hours of table work instead of the 20 minutes you might, you know, or, you know, even a generous hour would be, you know, great. But this kind of deep dive into a, you know, quite small section of the script is. It’s just. It’s wonderful. It’s just wonderful.

Brendon Fox: And it’s a chance for us to give ourselves. my favorite words in any rehearsal process are, I don’t know. Right. And I think that what I love about. One of the things I love about this play is how much the characters get wrong, as much as they get right. And to me, that’s why it’s still worth studying. Because, you know, the longer the play goes on, the audience is in this God’s eye view, right, of being privileged to go, oh, no, Hannah Bernard, you’re so off base on all these things because we got to see what really happens. So that’s the other thing I would just offer, is that, like, you know, to state the obvious, but it’s important that we’re all coming to this with fresh eyes. The great thing is what I’m so jealous about, you know, Tea, when you said that this was your first time reading it, I had this pang of God, I wish. I wish that could have been me, you know, to have that. That first experience with this. But whether it’s our first time with the play or we’ve seen it a bunch of times, I just think there’s something valuable in also sharing when we’re not sure about something or what this reference means or what we’re even doing in this moment. so I just think it’s worth shining a light on that to say none of this is a test or to show off. I’d like us to have, even in the time we’ve got this, a space for each other to, offer ideas. But, also to say, I don’t know, let’s phone a friend. Let’s open it up to the group. if we’re all good for that. That’s an approach I’d love to take with these hours. Obviously, I’d like to read both scenes, kind of back to back, and then circle back and start to break them down. But I would love to start by asking what some initial impressions on these. Let’s just. Just talking about, let’s say these particular scenes, but the play in general. But to be a little specific to these, anything that’s jumped out at you. First observations coming, into tonight.

Geoffrey Wade: Well, I’ll just pick up on what you said about the characters getting it wrong. that’s, that’s part of the, the actual humor, what actually makes the audience laugh. and it’s, it’s part of what makes the, the play so delightful. I mean he’s dealing with, or we’re the characters stopper is dealing with these incredibly complex ideas, difficult things that, that you know, it’s this thrilling time in history, the age of enlightenment and all this stuff that’s going on. It’s not actually not unlike where we are right now. I mean there’s a, interesting things happening. and so even the people who think they know everything. One of the great pleasures of Septimus at the beginning is I think he’s a 22 year old who kind of thinks he knows everything and almost immediately finds out that he doesn’t. And he’s dealing with this wonderful child who I, I, well now we’re getting into it. But, but you know, I think even from the start he knows that she’s clearly, unusual and you know, spectacularly intelligent, but right away she’s bringing up things that he can’t quite understand and at the same time he gets caught out in a very simple lie. I mean it’s, it’s just, I, I just, I, I love, I just love that stuff. I really, I really do. And it’s very hard to follow. I know people have seen the play and says it’s so complicated, I can’t follow it. But that’s also part of the fun. I think of when you see a play, you sort of let yourself swim in it. Maybe you don’t understand it and you know, you’ll understand on the drive home or in the shower three days later. It’s, that’s, that’s great stuff.

Brendon Fox: Yeah. Other thoughts?

Téa Guarino: I was thinking just about like Thomasina in general. Just like the, the, the genius of her being, like this young woman like growing into herself and her thoughts, but also with this like brilliant mind. Like all of these, like these mathematical thoughts and these like all this structured stuff. But it’s also like so like what is that in like such like a childlike way. It’s. I love the, I loved the, just the childlike wonder mixed with the super advanced brain mechanisms that she has. So that was just so interesting to me of just the, the writing of that because it’s, it seemed very like this, this, this, this, this and then just like kind of thinking. But then also this is, this is this and then thinking and like I, I Think I operate in that kind of way as well. So I was like. I was reading and I was like, oh, like, Brendan really knows me. He really, like. It’s just very. I really operate in that kind of, like, all over the place. But, like, deep down I’m grounded in what I do know. So, yeah, I really connect to her. I’m excited to explore what else. Being it’s my first time with the text, I’m sure I’ll discover more things, but for right now, yeah, it’s wonderful.

Brendon Fox: Well, Taya, if I may just really quick pick up on that word of wonder. And I think that’s something we can all explore because I think one of the. I think every play has traps. And I think for me, one of the traps of any stopper play, a little like doing a Shaw or Noel Coward play, is characters who just know it all or want to seem like that for two and a half hours. And that can be fun and scintillating for a bit. And then it can feel to me, it can start to grate. And I feel like, where’s the wonder? Like you said, where’s the discoveries and, the taking a plunge and then pivoting and trying again? And I think it’s. Thomasina really embodies it. But I would say that I think that can happen throughout. To me, what makes these characters really fascinating and frankly, really sexy is when is there is how they think and how they are thinking out loud in front of each other, which inspires or pisses somebody off or whatever. But I would encourage us all to have that small flashlight so that we can keep stumbling upon big and small discoveries and let ourselves, you know, we can go fast, like between, like you said, Jeff, between cockiness and wonder or, you know, ignorance or, being befuddlement. Right. Or any of those things. To me, then that adding those bumps in the road helps push back against these characters feeling a little like Teflon, if you know what I mean, that they. There’s just sort of. They’ve got it all figured out. And I think that also, to me makes things more playable beat to beat. If we’re not making them these superhuman thought machines, if that makes sense. So, anyway, just wanted to pick up on that for a second. Chris, Kate, Jennifer. Thoughts?

Chris Guilmet: Well, I was just thinking actually about how, in the choosing of the two scenes, you know, what you were saying about how it can be super grating to listen to people who are always, you know, over everyone else, smarter than everyone else in the room, if there’s five people and they’re all smarter than each other, that’s can be awful to watch. But in the two scenes you’ve picked, there’s the one where Septimus is in his very, confidence, cocky sort of role. And then in the second scene, he’s a little, you know, a little more on his heels and a little. A little more contrite in some ways and unsure. so it’s interesting to see those two sides of this one character in the two scenes.

Brendon Fox: Yeah, I love that. Thank you for picking up on that. That was kind of part of the point of why I chose them, was to see what is it like to have two people playing him and to see these very different sides. And so, like, going off of what you’re saying, Chris, like, what I would suggest is when they are most. When. When they. When a character seems to me like mostly X in a scene, where can we find Y? Right. So in your scene, Chris, let’s. Where can we find those moments of. Okay, I got this before the rug gets pulled out again. And I think, Jeff, you know the same opposite for you of like, where. When can he be at sea? And how often can we put those. Those moments so that we can just keep finding opposites? But, yeah, I love that. Jennifer, Kate, any thoughts off the bat?

Jennifer Le Blanc: Well, just.

Dr. Kate Moncrief: I love.

Jennifer Le Blanc: I love the scenes and piggybacking on what other people said. There’s also, like, a joyfulness of, like, there’s a. There’s a, smugness, a smug obiner on a character that I think is really fun because in almost any scene where your character is like, I’ve got the upper hand, you can Bet that within 30 seconds, someone else comes in with information of I was incorrect. And so I think there’s something fun about the peak of. Well, I have this. And no, I was wrong. And I especially like it, just as a theme in the overall play. Watching the scholars looking back at history smugly thinking that they can interpret it because they know so much and forgetting that humans are gonna human and that they’re forgetting the human factor because they’ve read so much about these people and they know so much, and then they get everything wrong because they’re forgetting the humanness is sort of a fun theme going on.

Brendon Fox: Well, Jennifer, I think. And Nathan’s listening. I know in the back of the theater, I really hope that we start making T shirts, and that will be Arcadia on one side and humans are gonna human on the other. Because I literally think you have Nailed now for this play, wherever it’s done, that is just, like, so spot on. But, yeah, it’s true. It’s like Stoppard sets us up to take us down. And I think. But you’re right. Both are important, right? To feel like, okay, I have this moment of certainty in both scenes, both acts, both worlds of the play where people feel like they need, you know, and that’s something for us to explore, too. I hadn’t really thought of it this way until you just said that, Jennifer. But, like, you also could argue that many of Stopper’s characters are control freaks, right? That when a matter of their age or whatever, they want to get a grip on, when everything else might be chaotic in their love life, or Thomasine and her parents or whatever, this sense of, well, I know this, and, this gives me a handhold in the cliff face. So that, to me, is exciting more than just an intellectual need to know something, but actually, like, I need this for my soul. I need this for my psyche. And so then when I lose that grip, it becomes terrifying and exciting and, in free fall. And not just like, oh, okay, well, it’s a math problem, you know, I think, which is another trap of Stopper. It’s like, how do we keep the heart, the guts, the groin, all of the chakras in play and not just brains floating on stage? Because that goes off, what you’re saying, Jennifer. I mean, the humanity is making sure they’re all, you know, operating on all those levels that. And not just like, the witty banter and let’s talk about Fermat’s Last Theorem. But. But why, like, what am I getting out of this, like, here and not just here. and how was my relationship with this person now different? Because we talked about that. So that keeps Stoppard from just staying in the ether and keeps him also tethered to our bodies in a way.

Dr. Kate Moncrief: Brendan, I think the play does both of those things. It’s one of the things that I think many of us really love so much about Stoppard. The intellect that is at work there and the. The control of the form. the. In lesser hands, this play would be a hot mess, right? But it goes beyond being clever, but the intellectual control, the deep understanding of these subjects. But the play never only stays intellectual, right? He’s given us these really full human beings in the midst of these incredibly complex ideas. The choice of setting. I think, Jeffrey, you said it at the beginning, the time period where it. There were many. I think people thought the world Was like, full of change and full of excitement. And I like your thinking about it now. The technological change, the artistic change, the sort of the idea that the world was expansive. there was so much happening in this moment in history. And Stoppard sort of captures that, weaves it together brilliantly, but has these people in the middle of it, because nobody in this moment woke up and went, oh, today is the Industrial Revolution, right? They were living their lives. You know, the things were happening. They were falling in love, they were making mistakes, they were, you know, shooting grouse or whatever. While we look back on it as scholars and as somebody who spent a lot of time in the archives and in manuscripts, it’s. It’s just very interesting because you’re making these assumptions about things in the past, but it’s really, really hard to recover lived history. What were people’s lives actually like? So I think the imagination that’s at work in this play that both has a deep understanding of the time period and the intellectual concepts, the scientific concepts, but the deep humanity, that really is the beating heart of the play for me.

Brendon Fox: And, I also. I need to give a shout out to the great work that Dr. Kate did on this dramaturgy packet. So I hope you have your hymnals at the ready. Yes, Chris. Love it. Yeah.

Dr. Kate Moncrief: Teeny, tiny little thing for our scene scholars. Got a scholar, man. I had to send you stuff in advance.

Brendon Fox: You know, and we’ll. We’ll. And as things come up that are not necessarily in the packet, like we’ve done in past rehearsal rooms, you know, Kate’s up for doing, you know, Googling things away. And, you know, whether it’s for this each session or maybe we’ll come. We know she’ll come back with something in the next session or something. But, not the be all and end all, obviously. But, like, I think it’s an opportunity for us. I, have mine pulled up as well. So, you know, as a. As a. As a good place to start in terms of references, how do we feel about doing a little reading? Can we jump in? and, I, For now, if, you bear with me, I can. I’ll read in for Jellyby. And, why, don’t we. And I’ll read some of the stage directions, but how about we just take it from the few lines before Thomasina’s first line? I’ll start with Septimus as a tortoise. Do we see where we are when we’re ready? Yes. Are we good, Jeff?

Geoffrey Wade: Yeah. Where are we starting? We’re starting with.

Brendon Fox: I was just going to start with the. A few.

Geoffrey Wade: The.

Brendon Fox: Septimus has a tortoise which is sleepy enough to serve as lead. You both in? Yeah.

Geoffrey Wade: Excellent.

Brendon Fox: And then I’ll jump in with Jellyby. Septimus has a tortoise which is sleepy enough to serve as a paperweight. Elsewhere on the table, there’s an old fashioned theodolite and also some other books stacked up.

Téa Guarino: Septimus, what is carnal embrace?

Geoffrey Wade: Carnal embrace is the practice of throwing one’s arms around a side of beef.

Téa Guarino: Is that all?

Geoffrey Wade: No. Shoulder of mutton, haunch of venison. Well hugged. An embrace of grouse. Carno. Carnis. Feminine flesh.

Téa Guarino: Is it a sin?

Geoffrey Wade: not necessarily, milady. But when carnal embrace is sinful, it is a sin of the flesh. QED we had Cairo in our Gallic wars. The Britons live on milk and meat. Lacte et carne vivunt. I am sorry that the seed fell on stony ground.

Téa Guarino: That was the sin of Onan, wasn’t it, Septimus?

Brendon Fox: Yes.

Geoffrey Wade: He was giving his brother’s wife a Latin lesson, and she was hardly the wiser after it than before. I thought you were finding a proof for Fermat’s last theorem.

Téa Guarino: It is very difficult, Septimus. You will have to show me how.

Geoffrey Wade: If I knew how, there’d be no need to ask you. Fermat’s last theorem has kept people busy for 150 years. And I hoped it would keep you busy long enough for me to read Mr. M. Chaytor’s poem In Praise of Love, with only the distraction of its own absurdities.

Téa Guarino: Our Mr. Chaytor has written a poem.

Geoffrey Wade: He believes he’s written a poem. Yes. I can see that there might be more carnality in your algebra than in Mr. Chaytor’s couch of Eros.

Téa Guarino: Oh, it was not my algebra. I heard Jellyby telling cook that Mrs. M. Chaytor was discovered in carnal embrace in the gazebo.

Geoffrey Wade: Really? With whom, did Jellyby happen to say?

Téa Guarino: What do you mean? With whom?

Geoffrey Wade: With what? Exactly. So the idea’s absurd. where did that story come from?

Téa Guarino: Mr. Noakes.

Geoffrey Wade: Mr. Noakes?

Téa Guarino: Papa’s Landscape gardener. He was taking bearings in the garden when he saw through his spyglass, Mrs. Chaytor in the gazebo, in carnal embrace.

Geoffrey Wade: And you mean to tell me that Mr. Noaks told the butler?

Téa Guarino: no. Mr. Noakes told Mr. Chaytor. Jellyby was told by the groom who overheard Mr. Noakes telling Mr. Chaytor in the stable yard.

Geoffrey Wade: Mr. Chaytor being engaged in closing the stable door.

Téa Guarino: What do you mean, Septimus?

Geoffrey Wade: So, thus far, the only people who know about this are, ah, Mr. Noakes, the landscape architect, the groom, the butler, the cook, and of course, Mrs. Chaytor, husband, the poet, and Arthur, who was.

Téa Guarino: Cleaning the silver and the boot boy. And now?

Geoffrey Wade: Ah, you, of course. what else did he say, Mr. Noakes? No, not Mr. Noakes. Jellyby. You heard Jellyby telling the cook?

Téa Guarino: Cook hushed him almost as soon as he started. Jellyby did not see that I was being allowed to finish yesterday’s upstairs rabbit pie before I came to my lesson. I think you have not been candid with me, Septimus. A, gazebo is not, after all, a meat larder.

Geoffrey Wade: I never said my definition was complete.

Téa Guarino: Is Carl embrace kissing?

Geoffrey Wade: Yes.

Téa Guarino: And throwing one’s arm around Mrs. Chaytor?

Geoffrey Wade: Yes. Now, Fermat’s last theorem.

Téa Guarino: I thought as much. I hope you are ashamed.

Geoffrey Wade: I, Milady?

Téa Guarino: If you do not teach me the true meaning of things, who will?

Geoffrey Wade: Ah. Yes, I am ashamed. Carnal embrace is sexual congress, which is the insertion of the male genital organ into the female genital organ for purposes of procreation and pleasure. Fermat’s last theorem, by contrast, asserts that when X, Y and Z are whole numbers, each raised to the power of N, the sum of the first two can never equal the third when N is greater than 2.

Brendon Fox: Ah.

Geoffrey Wade: Nevertheless, that is the theorem.

Téa Guarino: It is disgusting and incomprehensible. Now, when I am grown to practice it myself, I shall never do so without thinking of you.

Geoffrey Wade: Thank you very much, milady. Was Mrs. Chaytor down this morning?

Téa Guarino: No. Tell me more about sexual congress.

Geoffrey Wade: There is nothing more to be said about ex sexual congress.

Téa Guarino: Is it the same as love?

Geoffrey Wade: Oh, no, no, it’s much nicer than that.

Brendon Fox: One of the side doors leads to the music room. It is the other side door which now opens to admit Jellyby, the butler.

Geoffrey Wade: I am teaching Jellyby?

Brendon Fox: Beg, your pardon, Mr. Hodge. Mr. Chaytor said it was urgent you receive his letter. Oh, very well.

Geoffrey Wade: Thank you. Thank you.

Brendon Fox: Mr. Chaytor asked me to bring him your answer.

Geoffrey Wade: My answer?

Brendon Fox: He opens the letter. There’s no envelope as such, but there is a cover which, folded and sealed, does the same service. Septimus tosses the COVID negligently aside and.

Geoffrey Wade: Reads, well, my answer is that as is my custom and my duty to his lordship, I am engaged until a quarter to 12 in the education of his daughter. When I am done, and if Mr. Chaytor is still there. I will be happy to wait upon him in, the gun room.

Brendon Fox: I will tell him so. Thank you, sir.

Téa Guarino: What is for dinner? Jellyby.

Brendon Fox: Boiled ham and cabbages, my lady. And a rice pudding.

Téa Guarino: Oh, goody.

Geoffrey Wade: Well, so much for Mr. Noakes. He puts himself forward as a gentleman, a philosopher of the picturesque, a visionary who can move mountains and cause lakes, but in the scheme of the garden, he is as the serpent.

Téa Guarino: When you stir your rice pudding, Septimus, the spoonful of jam spreads itself round, making red trails like the picture of a meteor in my astronomical atlas. But if you stir backward, the jam will not come together again. Indeed, the pudding does not notice and continues to turn pink, just as before. Do you think this is odd?

Geoffrey Wade: No.

Téa Guarino: Well, I do. You cannot stir things apart no more.

Geoffrey Wade: Can no more you can. Time must needs run backward. And since it will not, we must stir our way onward, mixing as we go, disorder out of disorder into disorder, until pink is complete, unchanging and unchangeable, and we are done with it forever. This is known as free will or self determination.

Brendon Fox: He picks up the tortoise and moves it a few inches, as though it had strayed on top of some loose papers, and admonishes it.

Geoffrey Wade: Sit.

Téa Guarino: Septimus, do you think God is a Newtonian?

Geoffrey Wade: A Newtonian? Almost certainly. I’m afraid we must ask your brother to make it his first inquiry.

Téa Guarino: No, Septimus, a Newtonian.

Brendon Fox: Septimus,

Téa Guarino: Am I the first person to have thought of this? No, I have not. I have not said yet.

Geoffrey Wade: If everything from the furthest planet to the smallest atom of our brain acts according to Newton’s law of motion, what becomes a free will?

Téa Guarino: No.

Geoffrey Wade: God’s will?

Téa Guarino: No.

Geoffrey Wade: Sin?

Téa Guarino: No.

Geoffrey Wade: Very well.

Téa Guarino: If you could stop every atom in its position and direction, and if your mind could comprehend all the actions thus suspended, then if you were really, really good at algebra, you could write the formula for all the future. And although nobody can be so clever as to do it, the formula must exist just as if one could.

Geoffrey Wade: Yes. Yes. As far as I know, you are the first person to have thought of this. In the margin of his copy of Arithmetica, Fermat wrote that he had discovered a wonderful proof of his theorem, but the margin, being too narrow for his purpose, did not have room to write it down. The note was found after his death, and from that day to this.

Téa Guarino: Oh, I see now. The answer is perfectly obvious.

Geoffrey Wade: This time you may have overreached yourself.

Brendon Fox: Great. Let’s hold there. Oh, my gosh, it’s so great.

Chris Guilmet: It’s so good.

Geoffrey Wade: Good already, isn’t it?

Brendon Fox: Wow. there’s that. Well, well. So this a big question for the group right off the bat. what. How do we feel about exploring any of this at any point with dialects? I’m not saying we should or we shouldn’t, but I just. I offer that up to see, and maybe we might try it for a session and maybe let it go or. But it’s just. It’s just something as I was listening and thinking about. you know, there’s also an approach to just letting it be sort of a heightened speech. you know, again, this is not for a production, so we’re not, you know, we don’t have a text or dialect coach on. On payroll, waiting to jump in. But I just want to. I wanted to flag that, M. Just to see if we had initial thoughts on that.

Chris Guilmet: It’s not for production, however, I think that it being written for what we would consider a dialogue, its rhythms are impacted by how we are pronouncing and the rhythms that we’re using. And just in the most sweeping term of. As Americans, we go down and Brits go up in certain places, it’s going to change the rhythm of the play in a certain way. Maybe not to. In a bad way. Like, maybe there’s something to explore, but in. To me, I think it’s important to do this particular work with. With a dialect. Doesn’t have to be perfect, but, you know, with some of it. And Jeffrey was doing some flavor of dialect in that. But that’s my opinion about it.

Brendon Fox: Other thoughts? Yeah. Taya, what. What. What do you think?

Téa Guarino: Yeah, I agree. Like, as I was reading it with Jeffrey, I was like, yeah, I think that would kind of. That lends more like. Just like what. What Chris was saying, I think that lends more to the character as well. Just kind of like this, this, that. Like, I just feel like it would work so well. Obviously, it does. It was written that way.

Geoffrey Wade: So.

Téa Guarino: Yeah.

Brendon Fox: So, yeah, I mean, if we’re up for trying it. The thing I would just offer is while we’re trying to also figure out what literally are we saying. The danger can be that we all know is sometimes the dialect starts to play us and that we can fall into a flow that went, oh, that was great. What did I just say? It sounded beautiful. And so what I would encourage, if we want to try the dialect at any point, that also give ourselves permission to stop and say, I’m just going to say this me right now for A second. No dialect. Just to kind of make sure that you keep grounding. Right. Because I’m. The last thing I want is for us to start playing a style or a sound. and so I’m just offering that as a, yes. And to throw that out.

Geoffrey Wade: That makes perfect sense to me. Yeah.

Téa Guarino: Yeah, sounds good.

Brendon Fox: Jennifer, are you good? I think I saw the thumbs up.

Jennifer Le Blanc: Yeah, sounds good.

Brendon Fox: Yeah. okay. What I would like to. Can I, As tempting as it is to dive into that scene, I would love to move, to the next scene. And let’s read that as well so that we can just see, especially those who are. Who have been listening to one and then hear the other. Just what are some things we pull out of that? So if that’s okay with, Chris and Jennifer.

Geoffrey Wade: Sure.

Brendon Fox: and,

Chris Guilmet: Let’S.

Brendon Fox: I need to pull up my. Okay, so, again, I’ll reach LBN stage directions from the top. Is that okay? Scene six. The room is in.

Jennifer Le Blanc: Sorry, one moment. Sorry, just finding the page.

Geoffrey Wade: Can I ask what page that is?

Brendon Fox: All right.

Dr. Kate Moncrief: 71.

Jennifer Le Blanc: 71.

Geoffrey Wade: Thank you.

Brendon Fox: Thank you, Kate. Scene six. The room is empty. A reprise. Early morning. A distant pistol shot. The sound of the crows. Jellyby enters the dawn dark room with a lamp. He goes to the windows and looks out. He sees something. He returns to put the lamp on the table and then opens one of the French windows and steps outside. Mr. Hodge. Septimus comes in, followed by Jellyby, who closes the garden door. Septimus is wearing a great coat.

Chris Guilmet: Thank you. Jelly was expecting to be locked out. What time is it?

Brendon Fox: Half, past five.

Chris Guilmet: That is what I have. Well, what a bracing experience.

Brendon Fox: He produces two pistols from inside his coat and places them on the table.

Chris Guilmet: Dawn, you know, unexpectedly lively. Fishes, birds, frogs, rabbits.

Brendon Fox: He produces a dead rabbit from inside his coat.

Chris Guilmet: Very beautiful. If only it did not occur so early in the day. I have brought Lady Thomasina a rabbit. Will you take it?

Brendon Fox: It’s dead.

Chris Guilmet: Yes. Lady Thomasina loves a rabbit pie.

Brendon Fox: Jelloby takes the rabbit without hesitation. There is a little blood on it. You were missed, Mr. Hodge.

Chris Guilmet: I decided to sleep. Last night in the boathouse, did I see a carriage leaving the park?

Brendon Fox: Captain Bryce’s carriage. With Mr. Mrs. Chater also gone? Yes, sir. And Lord Byron’s horse was brought round at 4 o’clock.

Chris Guilmet: Lord Byron too?

Brendon Fox: Yes, sir. The house has been up and hopping.

Chris Guilmet: But I have his rabbit pistols. What am I to do with his rabbit pistols?

Brendon Fox: You were looked for in your room.

Chris Guilmet: By whom?

Brendon Fox: By her Ladyship.

Chris Guilmet: In my room?

Brendon Fox: I Will tell her Ladyship you are returned.

Chris Guilmet: Jellyby, did Lord Byron leave a book for me?

Brendon Fox: A book?

Chris Guilmet: He had the loan of a book from me.

Brendon Fox: His Lordship left nothing in his room, sir, not a coin.

Chris Guilmet: Oh, well, I’m sure he would have left a coin if he’d had one. Jellyby, here’s half a guinea for you.

Brendon Fox: Thank you very much, sir.

Chris Guilmet: What has occurred?

Brendon Fox: The servants are told nothing, sir.

Chris Guilmet: Can’t count as Havagini find nothing anymore.

Brendon Fox: Her ladyship encountered Mrs. Chaytor during the night.

Chris Guilmet: Where?

Brendon Fox: On the threshold of Lord Byron’s room.

Chris Guilmet: which one was leaving? In which entering?

Brendon Fox: Mrs. M. Chaytor was leaving Lord Byron’s room.

Chris Guilmet: And where was Mr. Chaytor?

Brendon Fox: Mr. Chaytor and Captain Bryce were drinking cherry brandy. They had the footman to keep the fire up until 3:00. There was a loud altercation upstairs and.

Jennifer Le Blanc: Well, Mr. Hodge.

Chris Guilmet: My lady.

Jennifer Le Blanc: All this to shoot a hare?

Chris Guilmet: A rabbit? No, indeed. A, hare, though. Very rabbit.

Jennifer Le Blanc: Like my infusion?

Brendon Fox: Yes, my lady. He leaves. Lady Croom is carrying two letters. We have not seen him before. Each has an envelope which has been opened. She flings them on the table.

Jennifer Le Blanc: How dare you.

Chris Guilmet: I cannot be called to account for what was written in private and read without regard to propriety. Addressed to me, in my room in the event of my death.

Jennifer Le Blanc: What earthly use is a love letter from beyond the grave?

Chris Guilmet: As much, surely, as from this side of it. The second letter, however, was not addressed to your ladyship.

Jennifer Le Blanc: I have a mother’s right to open a letter addressed to you, breast by you, to my daughter, whether in the event of your life, your death or your imbecility. What do you mean by writing to her of rice pudding when she has been suffering the shock of violent death in our midst?

Chris Guilmet: Whose m death?

Jennifer Le Blanc: Yours, you wretch.

Chris Guilmet: Yes, I see.

Jennifer Le Blanc: I do not know. Which is the matter of your ravings. One envelope full of rice pudding, the other. The most insolent familiarity is regarding several parts of my body, but have no doubt which is the more intolerable to me.

Chris Guilmet: Which.

Jennifer Le Blanc: Oh, aren’t we saucy when our bags are packed? Your friend is gone before you and I have despatched the harlot, Chater and her husband and also my brother for bringing them here. Such is the sentence, you see, for choosing unwisely in your acquaintance. Banishment. Lord Byron is a rake and a hypocrite, and the sooner he sails for the Levant, the sooner he will find society congenial to his character.

Chris Guilmet: Has Been a night of reckoning indeed.

Jennifer Le Blanc: I wish it had passed uneventfully. With you and Mr. M. Chaytor shooting each other with the decorum due to a civilized house. You have no secrets left, Mr. Hodge. They spilled out between the shrieks and oaths and tears. It is fortunate that a lifetime’s devotion to the sporting gun has halved my husband’s hearing to the ear. He sleeps on well.

Chris Guilmet: I’m afraid I have no knowledge of what has occurred.

Jennifer Le Blanc: Your trollope was discovered in Lord Byron’s room.

Geoffrey Wade: Discovered?

Chris Guilmet: by Mr. Chaffer.

Jennifer Le Blanc: Who else?

Chris Guilmet: I am very sorry, madam, for having used your kindness to bring my unworthy friend to your notice. He will have to give an account of himself on me, you may be sure.

Brendon Fox: Before Lady Croom can respond to this threat. Jellyby enters the room with her infusion. It’s quite an elaborate affair. A pewter tray and small feet which has a kettle suspended over a spirit lamp. There’s a cup and saucer and the silver basket containing the dry leaves for the tea. Jelly places the tray on the table and is about to offer further assistance with it.

Jennifer Le Blanc: I will do it.

Brendon Fox: Yes, my lady? Lord Byron left a letter for you with the valet, sir. Thank you, Owen.

Jennifer Le Blanc: did he do so?

Brendon Fox: as he was leaving, your ladyship. Sepnames puts the letter into his pocket.

Chris Guilmet: Allow me.

Brendon Fox: Since she does not object, he pours a cup of tea for her. She accepts it.

Jennifer Le Blanc: I do not know if it is proper for you to receive a letter written in my house from someone not welcome in it.

Chris Guilmet: Very improper, I agree. Lord Byron’s want of delicacy is a grief to his friends, among whom I no longer count myself. I will not read his letter until I have followed him through the gates.

Jennifer Le Blanc: That may excuse the reading, but not the writing.

Chris Guilmet: Your ladyship should have lived in the Athens of Pericles. The philosophers would have fought the sculptors for your idle hour.

Jennifer Le Blanc: Really?

Brendon Fox: Oh,

Jennifer Le Blanc: Really.

Brendon Fox: Septimus has taken Byron’s letter from his pocket and is now setting fire to a corner of it.

Jennifer Le Blanc: Oh, really?

Brendon Fox: The paper blazes in his hand. He drops and lets it burn on the metal tray.

Chris Guilmet: Now, there’s a thing. A letter from Lord Byron, never to be read by a living soul. I will take my leave, madam, at.

Jennifer Le Blanc: The time of your desiring it to the Indies.

Chris Guilmet: The Indies? Why?

Jennifer Le Blanc: To follow the chaitor, of course. She did not tell you?

Chris Guilmet: Did not exchange half a dozen words with me.

Jennifer Le Blanc: I expect she did not like to waste the time. The Chater sails with Captain Bryce.

Chris Guilmet: as a member of the Crew?

Jennifer Le Blanc: No. As wife to Mr. Chaytor. Plant gatherer. to my brother’s expedition.

Chris Guilmet: I knew he was no poet. I did not know he. It was botany under, his false colours.

Jennifer Le Blanc: He is no more a botanist. My brother paid £50 to have him published. And we will pay 150 to have Mr. Chaytor picking flowers in the Indies for a year while his wife plays mistress in the captain’s quarters. Captain Bryce has fixed his passion on Mrs. Chater. And to take her on voyage he has not scrupled to deceive the Admiralty. The Linian Society. Sir Joseph Banks, botanist to His Majesty at Kew.

Chris Guilmet: Her passion is not as fixed as his.

Jennifer Le Blanc: It is a defect of God’s humour that he directs our hearts everywhere, but to whom they have a right to loom.

Chris Guilmet: Indeed. Bellow. But is Mr. Chaytor deceived?

Jennifer Le Blanc: He insists on it and finds the proof of his wife’s virtue in his eagerness to defend it. Captain Bryce is not deceived, but cannot help himself. He would die for her.

Chris Guilmet: I think, my lady, he would have, Mr. Chaytor die for her.

Jennifer Le Blanc: Indeed. I never knew a woman worth the duel. Or the other way about. Your letter to me goes very ill with your conduct to Mrs. Chater, Mr. Hodge. I have had the experience of being betrayed before the ink was dry, but to be betrayed before the pen is even dipped and with the village notice board. What am I to think of such a performance?

Chris Guilmet: I was alone with my thoughts in the gazebo when Mrs. Chaytor ran me to ground. And I, being in such a passion, in an agony of unrelieved desire.

Brendon Fox: Oh,

Chris Guilmet: I thought in my madness that the Chater with her skirts over her head would give me the momentary illusion of the happiness to which I had dared not put a face.

Jennifer Le Blanc: I do not know when I have received a more unusual compliment. Mr. Hodge. I hope I am more than a match for Mrs. Chater with her head in a bucket. Does she wear drawers?

Chris Guilmet: She does, yes.

Jennifer Le Blanc: I have heard that drawers are being worn now. It is unnatural for women to be got up like jockeys. I cannot approve. I know nothing of Pericles or the Athenian philosophers. I can spare them an hour in my sitting room when I’ve bathed. 7 o’clock. Bring a book.

Brendon Fox: She goes out. Septimus picks up the two letters, the ones he wrote, and starts to burn them in the flame of the spirit lamp.

Geoffrey Wade: Ooh.

Brendon Fox: I think anyone who says ever that Tom Stomper cannot write a sex scene. Exhibit A. Bonin for the T shirt.

Chris Guilmet: For the T shirt of this, I wanted to say Tom Stoppard. All the chakras. Yep.

Brendon Fox: So what, jumped out of us hearing those back to back? I think that was fascinating.

Chris Guilmet: It’s so much hotter out loud than it is on the page.

Brendon Fox: Like Shakespeare.

Chris Guilmet: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.

Brendon Fox: Yeah, yeah. what else?

Chris Guilmet: I think. I think. Well, in the first scene, Septimus isn’t dishonest per se, but he’s playing a part for Thomasina, right? He has to be her tutor. She’s 13. She’s asking about things that he doesn’t necessarily want to tell a 13 year old. in. In this, he’s much more, unguarded and honest. I think. I think he’s being. He’s being as honest as he could ever be about, about anything. He doesn’t have the. He’s not being terribly glib or clever. Although he does say some clever things because he’s a smart guy. But, But I. I think there’s an honesty to him in this that isn’t necessarily part of the. Of the first scene.

Geoffrey Wade: I like to see it as. I mean, yes, it’s honesty, but it’s. It’s, You know, he’s dealing with different women. I think. I think he’s taking. I mean, to quibble, but to my Thomas, to my, Septimus’s mind, he’s taking care of her, he’s taking care around her, right? But this woman who’s, you know, grown up a woman knows what he’s dealing with. He can be much more straightforward in these wonderful, That thing about the philosophers, you know, and sculptors would battle each other for your spare hour. An incredible thing to say to somebody.

Brendon Fox: Well, but also, Jeff, isn’t it, Knowing your audience.

Geoffrey Wade: Well, yes, exactly.

Brendon Fox: You know, that. That would not fly with. I mean, Mrs. Chlor would be like. I’m sorry, what?

Geoffrey Wade: Yes, exactly, exactly.

Brendon Fox: I mean, you know, so it’s like that, to me, wit, is also about. You have to know your audience. You have to know what target you’re hitting. And that’s why I think they joke. But also he. He’s being honest about. Look, I don’t think we talked much. Did we ever. It was a hookup. Yeah, that’s. That’s. That’s not, That’s. That’s not what. You know, that, that is. Shader is all about only that. And that’s. She’s not turned on by Heracles of Athens, all of that.

Geoffrey Wade: But, you know, that’s why we see this scene, because this is A, sex scene. That whatever happens in the gazebo is just sex. This is like, this is no actual seduction.

Chris Guilmet: This puts it like I was, I was out there thinking. And then this came to me. I thought, well, okay, well, yeah.

Geoffrey Wade: She’S renowned for being able to grow orchids in her. In her nether parts. She’s just permanent state of arousal.

Brendon Fox: Right. Well, and the fact that like he. I mean, at least I don’t know what you. If you agree, Chris, but what I was hearing that time was that like I was alone with my thoughts about you.

Brendon Fox: And there it was. So she was a proxy. You know what I mean? It was like we used each other. She and I mean, she know at least I think, I think this was mutual, that the you and Mrs. Chater like had a need. But what Mrs. Chater was not aware of was that she was a stand in and that. I love that Jennifer picks up on that. Right? That lady croom sort of like he’s being so honest there and. Which could have totally backfired on you where she could have been like, that’s really rude and crude and I don’t think you should talk about a woman like that. And like this is the danger also at any moment between the two of you, I think is important to acknowledge that how many ways this could go wrong. Just like I think Jeff, you and Taya, this could also go so wrong at any moment. So I. One thing I noticed was a tightrope in both scenes. Yeah, yeah, just different tightropes. But like otherwise the danger, that’s another thing we have to watch out for with stopper is that like, where’s the actual danger? Where’s the risk? And like without that, the pulse goes down. Right? M. So I think this is, it’s. It’s exciting to see both septimuses have to navigate that and like, you know, and to not know whether. How it’s going to go. Because you know, I think, Jeff, you don’t know, Thomasina might be. This might be the day that you traumatize her, you know, because you know, if we, if we think, oh, you can take it, oh, you’re fine, you’re precocious, then to me that’s getting ahead of the game. Right? But like, it’s like. And also how much is she gonna ask? Maybe I can just say one thing about beef and she’ll be good.

Geoffrey Wade: Yeah, right. But she’s too smart, isn’t she? Yeah, right.

Brendon Fox: And she’s like, go on, go on, more, more. Oh shit.

Geoffrey Wade: I Mean, she catches him up, in an inconsistency.

Brendon Fox: Yes. She’s listening.

Geoffrey Wade: Yeah.

Brendon Fox: That’s the other thing. All of these characters are not only super smart, but their antennae are out. Right. They are picking up on every single thing. Sometimes, to your chagrin. Right? It’s like, I didn’t realize you heard that or caught that. You know, that’s. I think that’s. I think that’s interesting, too. Dr. Kate, any. Any thoughts listening to both of these? And what. What was your. What was your takeaway on these? First pass.

Dr. Kate Moncrief: Yeah, I’m in agreement with the room, actually. This is such a smart group here. But the,

Geoffrey Wade: What’s,

Dr. Kate Moncrief: Innuendo. What’s. On the surface? What’s. What’s sex? And what’s more intriguing than that? Right. sex is better than love. And this flirtation might be even better than. Than that. You know, like the. Where the characters are picking up on. I want to say, there’s a lot of nuance to this and to relationships.

Brendon Fox: Yeah. It’s interesting, right, that. Kate, that we don’t see Septimus with Chater at the gazebo. We also don’t see Lady Croom and Septimus together. It’s not just. I think the stoppers are like, oh, I want to keep it all in one room. It’s like. I mean, they could have jumped each other right here, too. They, you know, could have been a Trigor and Archadna moment or something, too. Right. But instead it is so much about the buildup and the nuance of. And letting the audience. Dot, dot, dot. Right. That it’s. It’s. It’s so much about pushing the envelope of. Well, I’m going to go here with my innuendo. Are you going to match me or did I overstep? Yeah. well, you don’t know.

Dr. Kate Moncrief: Intellectual, like, pursuit is sexy, right. That it’s hot that they’re on the same intellectual level.

Geoffrey Wade: 100%.

Chris Guilmet: Yeah.

Geoffrey Wade: That’s. That’s where those are always the best scenes. I mean, once they’re in the bed and it’s nothing, then it’s cinematography. This is. This is.

Brendon Fox: What’s.

Geoffrey Wade: This is what’s hot. This is the. You know, I think,

Brendon Fox: And it’s fascinating, too, that the curiosity to me is in both scenes, right? There’s curiosity about ideas, about what sex, math, relationships are. And I think there’s that. That struck me. And the idea of satiating another person’s curiosity is also really, really interesting and potentially erotic, but also, like, satisfying this sense of I wonder Taya about this idea of like her need to know. Like you said, the wonder. And coupling that with her curiosity of the. Yes. And what about this? And like something. I know we’re all in these. Just these boxes here, but something I think for us all to get to keep exploring is what is happening to them kinesthetically. Right. And you know, we can even. Even in zoom, there’s a difference. Like I was noticing when. When you had the opportunity, when you looked away. Right. Versus when you were engaging, you know. And what is it like to be struck by something before you come back with your new. And obviously we’re on book and everything, but it’s just something for us to chew on when we circle back to the first scene of what is it like Thomasina to. I feel like hard enough to capture her precociousness or genius is that it takes her over. Maybe this sense of like it’s going back just goes back to this kinesthetic sense of the sponge needing more. But then what about that? And you know, that like getting into it with that full sense of herself that also allows us to capture her age a little, you know, where another young woman or young boy of their age might be, you know, geeking out over toy soldiers and dolls, going out to play, whatever for her, she’s like, ah, this is like the best thing ever, right? Like rice pudding and Vermont is exactly the same level of geek out, you know, like there’s no difference. And that to me also could bring forth a 13 year old, you know? Yeah.

Jennifer Le Blanc: I also love.

Brendon Fox: Sorry.

Jennifer Le Blanc: Tan. Go ahead, go.

Téa Guarino: Jennifer, I’m so sorry. Go ahead. I was thinking about that. I was like, as you were going through it, I just. I found myself just kind of like at the idea of things just like kind of just being like, oh, wow, like this and this and that. Like, just like we were talking about. I also. It like super interesting that, like, obviously that’s just. That’s the theme of it, of this scene. But the, the complex idea that ideas that Thomasina has, like, although Septimus knows, like the complexity of them, it’s kind of still a push away thing of like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like you can’t undo things. But we got to keep going. We got to keep going for like. Like she didn’t just blow someone’s mind with like. Oh, yeah, you can’t undo something that has to be something like really smart that someone has to write down because we don’t know that yet. So it’s like, I think just Going with the idea of, like, yeah, this is like my innocent idea, but also the, like, the audience and everyone else knows that, like, this is groundbreaking is so cool that, like, you can have that. That like 13 year old wonder of, like, wow, this, this, this. But also with those, like, crazy ideas. So, that was just. That was just cool.

Geoffrey Wade: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Brendon Fox: Well, and the fact that you also don’t need Septimus’s approval to stay with it, like, whether he blows you off or not. I love that Thomas, he’s like, yeah, I still. I’m still on this. You know what I mean? I’m not letting go of that. And, you know, you can blow me off all you want, but like, that to me is also exciting, right? That she’s like, yeah, no, I know that. I know I’m onto something, you know, so she could be running that hard drive and if he’s. If he’s in it with you, great. But if he’s talking about some bs, whatever stuff.

Téa Guarino: Yeah, I’m still.

Brendon Fox: Yeah, that doesn’t, it doesn’t sort of make you go, oh, well, if Septimus isn’t into it, I guess it’s nothing. Which is again, another reason why she is like one in 100 year person. Because she’s like, I know deep down I don’t know fully, but I know and I’m gonna just like dog with a bone.

Geoffrey Wade: And, it seems to me the interesting thing about, you know, the arc of the scene, because it kind of finishes at this point is when he can’t blow her off anymore. Not blowing her off. But she’s supposed to be studying. I’m doing my own thing. I think it’s a sort of joyful persistence. you were talking, tay about how it. Each new thing sort of excites you more. But that final thing she gets to, which is, you know, the theory of everything sort of, you know, we should be. There should be a simple mathematic formula for everything, right? M. And. And you know, Stoppard’s written in those two big pauses. It’s like, yes, Jesus, yes. And. And then it’s sort of even too much for him to handle. And so he. He moves onward. But I think, I think that’s that. I mean, that’s again, that kind of the fun of the player thing, because even at that point, you can see him sort of get knocked just, just a little bit off. You know, his. His metronome is just bumped a little bit there. Yeah. And I, you know, I think, I think he already thinks as I Said well before the scene starts that she’s a. She’s a special young, woman. But when she comes up with something like that, it’s like, Jesus, that’s. I never thought of that. And I’m really smart.

Brendon Fox: Yeah. And it sets. And that brings up the question of we always have to ask ourselves why today? Right. What’s different about today? So that she can be cheek. Yeah, she can be super smart. But then today also just starting off with, oh, shoot, she’s asking about carnal embrace.

Geoffrey Wade: Yeah.

Brendon Fox: How old is she again? When was her last birthday? You know, do I have to be.

Geoffrey Wade: The one to give her the talk? Is that. Is that what’s going on here? I’m going to be.

Dr. Kate Moncrief: No, I was thinking about. I was being in nerdy dramaturg here, trying to scroll through on the page and find the exact quote. But I think in the. In the contemporary timeline, Hannah says something like, it’s wanting to know or the wanting to know that makes us matter. And that idea of wanting to know is just at, the heart of this.

Brendon Fox: Right.

Dr. Kate Moncrief: It’s intellectual. It’s curiosity. It’s about sex. The term knowing has a lot of reson. So I think it’s really at the heart of what he’s asking. It’s the wanting to know, that curiosity that drives us as humans desire.

Jennifer Le Blanc: I love the, like, the detail that on the night before, like his farewell letters before he goes to a duel, he’s got two things he needs to write down. One is a seemingly detailed seduction letter, and the other is rice pudding. I’m still thinking about that conversation. And those are the two things he needs to clear up in case the duel doesn’t go well. Those are the two that sets everything up for him. And he’s good to go. It’s such an interesting character thing of, like. Everything else seems resolved. But these are the two things before I go that I really need to put onto paper.

Dr. Kate Moncrief: Aren’t they both connected, too, by hunger?

Brendon Fox: If you think.

Chris Guilmet: You know.

Dr. Kate Moncrief: Yeah.

Geoffrey Wade: Yeah. But all the.

Brendon Fox: This is.

Geoffrey Wade: What’s.

Brendon Fox: Kate.

Geoffrey Wade: what you were just saying, it suddenly made me think, oh, yeah, he’s. You know, Thomas Cena is. Because she’s a girl. That’s important. It’s. It’s all. It’s all the mind.

Chris Guilmet: It’s.

Geoffrey Wade: I mean, she wants to know about these things that, you know, the carnal embrace and all that. And it’s confusing. And then when she hears about it, it’s like, ugh. Oh, God. You know, it’s horrible. But. But so. So she’s all the mind. But at the same time, our. Our sort of initial introduction to Septimus. This is a guy who, you know, screws the. The lady of the house in the gazebo. So there’s this real. And they’re both things. They’re both wants and hungers. You know, there’s the carnal hunger and the intellectual hunger, and they’re sort of equally strong, which is. Which is thrilling. Right? It’s so great.

Brendon Fox: Well, and. And the fact that, too, that, you know, that Septimus, with this letter addressed to Thomasina, is so beautiful that on the night of his death, he wants to continue the conversation. Right. That. It’s like, I’ve been here, like you said, Jen, I can’t stop thinking about it. Here’s my thoughts on your thoughts. and, You know, I may not be around to keep the conversation going, but I don’t think this was him saying. And maybe you think. You think otherwise, Chris, but I don’t. My instinct is that he’s not saying, well, here’s what it is about rice pudding. Here’s just, like, the next part of the conversation. I’ve been thinking about the rice pudding, and here’s some additional thoughts.

Geoffrey Wade: It’s.

Brendon Fox: It’s not the answer. It’s more on, you know, it’s that she would then, oh, then I should be inspired by that to keep going. Do you know what I mean? That. It’s like. It’s. It’s the best kind of intellectual discourse of, Based on what Dr. Kate Moncrief wrote about Troy’s and Cressida. I have this response, and now they have. You know what I mean? It’s that feeling of. Of. It’s. It’s not like it never ends. Right. Ideally, it’s. It’s not the sense of. We’ve solved it. Yeah.

Geoffrey Wade: So.

Brendon Fox: Yeah, go ahead, Chris. Yeah.

Chris Guilmet: We don’t know what it. All we know is that it’s about rice. Put it like. We have no. We have no idea what he was saying to her about it. yeah, you know, if, It was. Well, He just leaves it at it was. She says she’s. She sees it as a discussion about rice pudding, but we can imagine all sorts of things that it could have been.

Brendon Fox: Right, Right. Right. And. And the fact that, like, I love that, Jen. You’re just like. Well, I don’t. This is just almost gibberish of, like, what. Why would you even talk to her? And even something. So, You know, what would be the point? Of that when she’s suffering the shock of your death m. And you decide to talk a gange about rice pudding. It makes no sense. And I love Chris hearing him say, wait, who’s death? And she’s like, well, yours, obviously. I’m gaining this out. Like, you know, oh, a little cattail.

Brendon Fox: I think that’s, you know, to me, there’s like that jumped out at me as a moment, I think Chris and Jennifer, where it’s like the chess game of, oh, oh, another moment when he was off footed, right. Where Lady Croom is like, come on, keep up. Yeah, right. I think that’s. And I feel like Thomasina has moments like that too. Like, come on, Septimus. Like where the scene ends. Like, it’s so obvious. We don’t get to hear why it’s obvious to her. And I love at that moment, that’s when Septimus was like, okay, that’s a little cocky. Lucky, you know, even for you, that that’s a. You know, I think you should spill your rule.

Dr. Kate Moncrief: One of those fun little Easter eggs too, because this theorem wasn’t proved until 1994.

Nathan Agin: Right.

Dr. Kate Moncrief: So she is ahead of her. She’s ahead of her time. You know, one more thought on the, On the rice pudding moment. It’s also as smart as Lady Croom is. That just seems like a, you know, stupid detail to her. But what Thomasina had been saying about the rice pudding, the way she was thinking about how you can’t unstir it. Right?

Geoffrey Wade: Yeah.

Dr. Kate Moncrief: And at the moment of his death, when you’re thinking about, like, you can’t undo a thing, you can’t unstir a thing. And time is passing and this moment of a duel, you can’t unstir, it.

Brendon Fox: Right.

Dr. Kate Moncrief: You can’t go back. So I think it’s really interesting that he’s. That’s for me, that’s for that conversation that they’re having with each other. And something she brought up makes sense that he might be thinking about that on his death.

Brendon Fox: Which is kind of also sad to me that a very melancholy sense of, how did I get here? Right? This sense of like, why did it have to come to this? I mean, Jennifer, you mentioned this whole idea of. I’ve never thought of a duel worth the woman or vice versa. And it’s something to be thinking about. Chris is like, what, you know, his state of mind as he comes in and like the night, his past, the fact that the duel didn’t happen, but that he was ready for this. He had prepared Himself. I mean it also sets up beautifully for you both in the scene. The given circumstances of both of you being in these extreme emotional places. Right. That, that Septimus can wax about that great line about. I love the early morning. If only didn’t come so early in the day, you know, that, that whole thing. But also underneath he almost. He had almost. He could have just died, you know. And so it allows. It really does a nice job of setting you both up to be, with one less layer of protection. Right. With all the chaos going on in your house, Jennifer, and all of the to be or not to be going on with you, Chris, in the, in the, in the. In the other. In the. You know, on their side of the park. It’s you both now meet in the middle of the night, which is also this wonderful liminal time. Right. Then neither of you have slept. It sets you up to be in this place of. Well, screw it. I’m just going to say what I feel. you know, I mean life’s short as this place shows us in a really awful, bittersweet way. You know, Thomasina doesn’t live past that birthday. And so this feeling of time is flying and you can’t unstir things. So you know, I will say this to you, I will tell you why, what I was thinking when I was with the cheater, you know, even if it blows up in my face, if not now, when you know, and what’s interesting and I think there’s opportunities when we come back to that for you both where what is it like, Jen, for you to hear, you know, his real thought. It’s one thing to read the letter, right. So that starts to have you think about him in a. In a particular way. And then it’s another to actually now see him for the first time since reading that letter and then hear what he has to say about it. Does he disown it? Does he lean into it?

Jennifer Le Blanc: Yeah. Particularly if. Cause he does catch her out on. So was she discovered leaving Lord Byron’s room by Mr. Chaytor? Sure, that’s a good story. But like she’s caught. So that could be the deal breaker. But it’s clear to that it isn’t. So it’s like, okay, well that’s interesting. Like clearly I was headed toward Lord Byron’s room myself. And he knows that.

Brendon Fox: Yeah.

Jennifer Le Blanc: And that is not changing his opinion toward me. That’s new information.

Brendon Fox: Oh, that’s great.

Téa Guarino: Yeah.

Brendon Fox: I didn’t really clock that. Yeah. And then what I noticed too this time was when you say your behavior, you know, how do you square what you wrote to me versus the fact that you were with the cheater? so which is it? Right? So, like, even if I’m considering anything happening, can you explain. Yeah. What’s your deal in terms of us? Right. Did she get a letter like this as well, you know?

Jennifer Le Blanc: Yeah. And it does seem like it’s new information, like that nothing has happened like this between the two of them before. So it’s like this is just brand new information, it seems.

Brendon Fox: Yes. You know, and you and Chris, you’ve watched her flirt with that, you know, the, the, the other, you know, what is it? Is it the music teacher, right? And, and, and Byron. And it’s like I, I love that moment when you say, you know, about our hearts can go everywhere except those who are, who deserve them. And, and you have this moment, Chris. Well, true that. Right. And there’s a pause there that I would encourage us to explore of, like, what’s that like for you, Jennifer? Of. Oh, you know what I mean? Like, is there a, is there a maybe a penny drop? A little bit of that, you know, Septimus is waiting for. Did you hear what you just said? You know, do you see me after all of these other men who have come through here? And I’m wallpaper. I’m just the tutor. And I am, you know, I’m an extension of Thomasina. Do you see me as a man and as someone who wants you? And I’ve been here all for years, literally. The thing we forget is that, like, years pass in this play and there’s Septimus, right? And Thomasina grows, you know, and new people come and go and then there. But that I also could see why Chris, that could do harm to you to be like, hey, remember me? And she’s like, yeah, good morning. It’s like time lapse photography of their septimist just being like, still nothing. Nothing, you know?

Chris Guilmet: but there is a measure of like, he’s. He’s on his way out the door in this scene too, right? He’s leaving nothing, nothing to lose. I have no, like, I’m going to lose my job if I say anything to the lady of the house about, about how I feel or any of this. So there’s a measure of like it too. And maybe, and maybe heightened by a quasi near death experience or at least contemplating your own mortality with the possibility of a duel and debt. Like, maybe there’s some, some freedom in that to just, say it.

Brendon Fox: Sign late. Yeah.

Chris Guilmet: So, that she doesn’t know already, right?

Brendon Fox: Because, well, because you, you, you’re right. I mean it finally like you put it down in paper talking about not taking something back. You can’t unstir that, right? And, and I, I love that you gave yourself. You thought this was foolproof. Chris of like, well, you know, if I win, maybe I can get those letters back. If I lose, no harm, no foul, I’m out. Right? But it’s like, well, I live. And now, you know, and now what? Yeah, and she’s like, yeah, ah, here’s what, what, what do I do with this? You know, and, and so I think there’s an interesting thing for the whole scene of the two of you clocking each other with this new information of you know, Septimus has been. You’ve been viewing her and we don’t know for how long, but there seems to be this long standing attraction and. Whereas if I wonder about for you, Jennifer, of like to make it as exciting and as immediate, how much is it. Is she processing right? Is the lens changing on Septimus? Of, Well, he’s always been witty, he’s always been good to have here and you trust him, et cetera, to a degree. But now it’s this. So, you know, do we just acknowledge that and not go any further? I mean, you know, that alone would be an amazing scene, but the fact that if we decide to push it further is where they keep going into more dangerous territory. so going back to the beginning, in that first scene, something. And we can always tighten this up and such, but I would encourage us from the jump. Ah, you know, for both of you, Taya and Jeff. Ah, of how many, how often can we be stopped in our tracks? You know, the fact that, like, what you’re supposed to be doing, Taya, is what you’re supposed to be doing. Your algebra. Right. Isn’t that like you’re on your side of the table? That’s your homework, right? So while you’re working on that, Jeff, you’re struggling to get through couch of Eros, is that right?

Chris Guilmet: Yes.

Brendon Fox: And for what? To give it a review or what. What is, the. What’s. What’s the purpose of this?

Geoffrey Wade: Well, I expect it’s. Am I on? Yeah, I expect it’s to give it a review. I mean, didn’t Septimus write the review that. That Chater is so upset about?

Brendon Fox: Yeah, yeah.

Chris Guilmet: For his previous work.

Geoffrey Wade: Yeah, he’s a, you know, he’s a New York Review of Books. He’s A reviewer.

Brendon Fox: Yeah. So that’s how you get some extra money too, right? Besides being the tutor.

Geoffrey Wade: Yeah. yeah, I think. Yes, that’s. That’s what I’m doing. And it’s. It’s like study hall. You know, we’re both. There’s.

Brendon Fox: Yeah.

Geoffrey Wade: Quietly doing our work, and all of a sudden she comes up with this question, right.

Brendon Fox: Well, it’s kind of. Yeah, go ahead.

Geoffrey Wade: Well, that sort of thing where, you know, you’re sitting around, you’re sitting around, and then just out of the blue, you ask whoever is in the room, you know, some completely out of the blue question. There’s no context. Right, right. For what?

Brendon Fox: Well, well, there is for. Not for you, but for her. Right. Because, Ted, don’t you say that they. You heard them saying. Yeah, go ahead.

Dr. Kate Moncrief: Yeah.

Téa Guarino: I specifically say it wasn’t the algebra that I’m working on. But it’s me overhearing the. But as far as, like, the immediate.

Geoffrey Wade: Exactly.

Téa Guarino: As far as the immediate. No, as. I think I’m just literally doing it, like doing my homework. I’m just like. Wait a minute, I just heard that. What does that mean? Like, just.

Brendon Fox: Right.

Téa Guarino: I think it’s just like a,

Geoffrey Wade: Exactly.

Brendon Fox: Well, it’s.

Geoffrey Wade: And it’s more of a conversation we’ve been having. It’s just.

Brendon Fox: No, no, exactly.

Geoffrey Wade: Completely out of the blue. And all she’s been doing is looking at algebra and algebra have. Have carnal embrace. Is that in. In the algebra?

Brendon Fox: Yeah.

Geoffrey Wade: Where did that come from?

Chris Guilmet: You know, it does.

Brendon Fox: Well, here’s the thought to what. What if. I mean, what if you’re both struggling? So, Jeff, what if we lean into. In, this kind of study, all that. You are like nails on a chalkboard, finger down your throat.

Geoffrey Wade: Yeah, it’s.

Brendon Fox: This is. It’s revolting how you. You can’t bring yourself to read another line of this, and yet you need that money. Right? So you are so. The more. More. I think that also allows you to be more sideswiped by Taya if you are so, you know, engaged and. And, you know, and in pain over this thing. And I wonder, Taya, for. For you, is there the opportunity of, like, you’re trying to do the algebra and you can’t solve what carnal embraces on your own.

Téa Guarino: I was so, like, thinking that, Yeah. Like, if everything is an X plus Y equals mx M plus B in my head, I’m like, putting together the conversation and like, there’s no equal. So, like.

Brendon Fox: Yeah.

Téa Guarino: the only person who could know this is Septimus. So I have to ask him this. Yeah.

Brendon Fox: Right, right. So that it’s like, what if that’s the equivalent of you throwing down the algebra brook, right? And being like, all right, I need help. I need to hit the buzzer. M. Right. That’s like, I really wanted to solve this myself. And we probably don’t even know how many things you’ve solved without even talking to somebody. That’s just like, Tuesday for you. And then. So if it’s actually, like, in that place of. Okay, then it can. What if it. Then it bursts out of you?

Téa Guarino: Yeah.

Brendon Fox: Of like, And, you know, we’ve all had that, right? Like, you think that you’ve had this conversation with them already, or you think you’ve already jumped a couple of steps and the person goes, wait, what? You’re like, no, you know this. Why don’t you. You’re in my head, right? I mean, it feels like you two have spent so much time together that, you have been able to speak each other’s language. That’s why later in the scene, Jeff, you can go. All right, let me guess. You’re thinking this. No, you’re thinking that. And so it makes sense to me, Taya, that you’re like, well, obviously, you know what I’m going to say. You know what I’m going to ask.

Téa Guarino: Hm.

Brendon Fox: Help me. Like, we have to tell me the answer on this. Like you said, there’s no equals. So let’s go. Yeah, I wanted to know this two hours ago.

Téa Guarino: Yeah.

Brendon Fox: And algebra is not comparing. There’s no way I can even not think about this. I can’t get back to the algebra until I solve for why. Solve for carnal embrace. And that allows yourself to kind of grab Jeff by the shirt verbally and be like, dude, what is this?

Geoffrey Wade: That’s very good. And there’s this interesting thing. I mean, what you just said made me think of, you know when you ask someone just happened to be sitting with, you know, literally something from another language, like, so, what does pan dolce mean? What does that mean? And the other person is, you know, what. What. What are you talking about? And. And how quickly. Well, I was just. This section about where he goes to the Latin made me think, I’m sorry, you didn’t understand that. Isn’t that what he means when he says, I’m sorry the seed fell on barren ground, like.

Brendon Fox: Yes.

Geoffrey Wade: You had that word back when we were studying the Gallic wars, right? When you were. You.

Brendon Fox: You.

Geoffrey Wade: You should know that word. So you should have known it. And if you. I’m sorry you didn’t remember. Obviously it didn’t take. And it’s really like.

Brendon Fox: Which is great that like, you turn it back on her maybe as a way to move on. Right? And then like. And instead of being shamed, then you turn. Now we’re going to talk about masturbation. And it’s like you, you. And you did it to yourself in a way that it’s like. Wait, stony ground. I’ve heard that phrase.

Geoffrey Wade: Yes.

Brendon Fox: You know, and once again.

Geoffrey Wade: Yeah, once again she gets ahead of me. It’s like she can’t there. It’s like.

Brendon Fox: So I think there’s opportunities, Jeff, for you to take. Let, Let us see those hiccups, right? Like, lean into the, the skipping on the record to, Before you can respond, so that we can see, I think, even from the jump. What if we even try that very first. So if you really, you know, give yourself a moment for you and Jeff to just sit there working on your own thing, being tormented by the thing. You’re being tormented, each of you. And then whenever you’re ready, Taya, let, it out full force. And then. And Jeff have to. Let’s see you scramble.

Geoffrey Wade: Okay?

Téa Guarino: Oh, yeah, sure. Let’s do it.

Dr. Kate Moncrief: Brendan, if I might add something just to go further with what you’re saying, I’m wondering if this is the thing that makes today different than the last hundred days. This is a big country house. Her job is to study, his job is to teach her one day might look a lot like the next. But today she’s got some tea, right?

Brendon Fox: Yeah, that’s true. Yes. That’s great, Kate. Because then also you, Jeff, because I noticed that step is like, no go. Wait, I back up. Back the tape up. But who? But who? So I think there’s opportunities there, Jeff, when we get to that section, to be like, now I need to know.

Geoffrey Wade: Yeah, yeah.

Brendon Fox: You know, and, and, and, and now this is the first time, like you said, maybe ever.

Geoffrey Wade: How many people know that? Well, it’s just the groom and the horsemen and the butler and you know, everybody in the house except.

Brendon Fox: Yes, Right. Professor Plum in the study.

Geoffrey Wade: Yeah.

Brendon Fox: With the candlestick. He knows too. They. Everybody. So. Yeah.

Brendon Fox: Okay.

Téa Guarino: So we’re doing this now, right? Are we doing okay? Septimus, what is carnal embrace?

Geoffrey Wade: Carnal embrace is the practice of throwing one’s arms around a side of beef.

Téa Guarino: Is that all?

Geoffrey Wade: No, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. no, no, no. A shoulder of mutton. a haunch of Venison. well, hugged. An embrace of grouse. Carl. Carnis feminine flesh.

Téa Guarino: Is it a sin?

Geoffrey Wade: Not necessarily, my lady. But when carnal embrace is a sin, it is a sin of the flesh. QED we had Karo in our Garlic Wars. Garlic Wars? The Britons live on milk and meat. Lacte et carne vivunt. I’m sorry that the seed fell on barren ground.

Téa Guarino: that was the sin of Onan, wasn’t it, Septimus?

Geoffrey Wade: Yes. He was giving his wife his. He was giving his brother’s wife a Latin lesson, and she was hardly the wiser after it than before. I. I thought you were finding a proof of Fermat’s last theorem.

Téa Guarino: It is very difficult, Septimus. You will have to show me how.

Geoffrey Wade: If I knew how, there would be no need for you. There would be no need to ask you. Fermat’s last theorem has kept people busy for 150 years. And I had hoped it would keep you busy long enough for me to read Mr. Chaytor’s poem in praise of love with only the distraction of its own absurdities.

Téa Guarino: Our Mr. Chater has written a poem.

Geoffrey Wade: He believes he’s written a poem? yes. He believes he’s written a poem. Yes. I can see that there might be more carnality in your algebra than in Mr. Chater’s couch of Eros.

Brendon Fox: Let me stop you there for a second. yeah. First of all, I love kicking things off with that kind of intensity. how’s that feeling?

Geoffrey Wade: Oh, it’s good.

Brendon Fox: To you, that, and I think, Jeff, to me, taking that much time, we are really exactly where you are. If you take that much time, we can be shocked by carnal embrace. So that you and the audience are right there with you, trying to come up with. Okay, I’m gonna have to answer something. I’m gonna go with this, right? And then I think, taya, that’s great. I think right from the beginning of then. Is that all? I love Jeff, you thought you were done, and then you have to. Now, okay, I’m back in it. here we go. you know, and then building that list of the mutton, the venison. you know, and by the time you got to feminine flesh, that was another place of like, okay, done. We’re closing the door, right?

Chris Guilmet: And.

Brendon Fox: And that. That sense of we’re. And I think. I wonder, Tam, when we come back to it, the what if you let Thomasina really now come around in a new, surprising way? So now you’re talking about spirituality. So that has to be an what if. That’s a whole nother thing that can sideswipe Jeff of, Oh, that. Wow. Okay. Yeah. So now we’re talking sin. Right? Just when I was able to. Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean, so I think you have to open up, a whole other can of worms there in a much, in a much bigger way. Right now it feels like it’s flowing. You’re almost making it too naturally organic.

Téa Guarino: Yeah.

Brendon Fox: In the conversation. And I, I think you can be a little more, you know, I think.

Téa Guarino: I can like third. I think I can be more 13 with it. Like, this is all, like, I, I keep forgetting that, like, I’m definitely 13 learning all of this. So I could, I can definitely give it more. Yeah. Ah, like, oh my gosh.

Brendon Fox: Like, because she’s. And she’s able to jump around as this 13, brilliant 13 year old in a way that septimization works in a more linear way. But you’re now going, okay, yes, but now what about spiritual. But also, what about the etymology? But also right, so that you’re this electron that keeps bouncing around and he has to kind of keep up with you.

Geoffrey Wade: It’s, it’s interesting because she’s picking up both. Again, this. Is that, that duality because you’re picking up on, on the word. This weird, you, know, carnal embrace this thing. And doesn’t she ask, it seems to me she asked about sin because of the way everyone is whispering about it and the way they shut up about it the second that, you know, when they realized you were in the room. It’s like, don’t, don’t talk about it because. Because of the kid. So that raises this other thing. Well, is it, is it wrong? And if it’s, you know, in 1809, wrong means sinful. Right. So, yeah.

Brendon Fox: Ah, so. Well, that’s, that’s true. Because that goes. Jeff, with what you. And you only answered part of her question.

Geoffrey Wade: Answered.

Brendon Fox: Part of what we talked about was carnal. Right, Carnegie.

Geoffrey Wade: Yeah. And I tried, I tried to move it. I try to make it into a lesson. Like, I’m the teacher. Okay. carnal. It comes from this word. And I remember the Latin. let’s talk about Latin. And then she goes, forget about school. I want to know that. Why is everyone whispering?

Brendon Fox: Right.

Jennifer Le Blanc: Oh, go ahead.

Brendon Fox: No, go ahead.

Jennifer Le Blanc: I was going to say, it may be obvious, but in 1809, answering fully, honestly is a great way to get fired. Like if you’re a tutor and you’ve got a 13 year old pupil like your parent. The parents will absolutely fire if you keep an honest answer. So it’s also just a great way.

Brendon Fox: To, not get fired. Jennifer, did you say 1809 or 2024.

Jennifer Le Blanc: Oh, sorry.

Brendon Fox: Yes.

Jennifer Le Blanc: Thank you.

Brendon Fox: Has anything changed?

Geoffrey Wade: Geez, you guys actually have to teach Go.

Jennifer Le Blanc: Yeah, but, like, you know, like, that is seriously, like, if anyone walks in while you are accurately describing this.

Geoffrey Wade: Bye.

Jennifer Le Blanc: You are fired now. So. Yeah, there’s that too.

Brendon Fox: And at the same time, here’s the amazing thing, Jeff, is that another person would lie to her, would give her half truths, but there’s some. A bond that you two have already made before this scene starts, before the play starts, where you will answer her in this container of truth. All right, now I’m going to give you this container of truth. When you say, but when carnal embrace is sinful, it is a sin of the flesh, Huey. And you’re right. And that’s what I love, is that when you are pushed by her to go further, you do. You don’t say. That’s not proper. What I think is beautiful is that there’s no judgment. There’s no. You should not be talking about this.

Geoffrey Wade: Yeah. And universes. I’ll tell you later. Or no, actually for your parents or something like that.

Brendon Fox: Right. And you don’t even, like, acknowledge that, I’m out of my depth or any of that. Like, you’re not going to initiate it. That’s what I want. I was getting at. If she asks, I will answer in a way that hopefully won’t get me fired, but I will not not answer. Right. But hopefully you’re. You’re good with this answer. Oh, you’re not?

Geoffrey Wade: No.

Brendon Fox: Crap. Okay. I’ll give you this much more. Right. But you’re not going to open the floodgates until we. That’s why we need this whole scene because she keeps going. I think there’s more behind that door. I, think there’s. You’re not still. And maybe. Why is today different, Taya? Is maybe. Is this the first day you see Septimus squirm? You see him? you can. Your spider sense is tingling. Going. I don’t think you’re. And you would literally say this to him? I don’t think you’re being honest with me. At one point. I don’t know if you’ve ever said that to him, you know, And I’m ashamed of you. What if those are all things you have never said? So I wonder. Jeff, when she says I’m ashamed. You should Be ashamed of yourself if what? If you think, oh, my God, she’s added it up and she knows. What should I be ashamed of? Lying? Having sex. There’s a million things I could be ashamed of. Right. and it’s the one thing you don’t count on is what she means. But it’s. But I think it can go deep, Téa Of like, see this? The last 10 minutes you’ve been holding back, and to me, it only works if it’s never been like that. And, ah, I love that you come to it, Jeff. You’re like, yep, you’re right.

Geoffrey Wade: Yep.

Brendon Fox: I am ashamed. I. I should have handled this whole scene better.

Dr. Kate Moncrief: I love what comes next after that. Not just the ashamed, but what Thomasina says, if you do not teach me the true meaning of things, who will?

Brendon Fox: Right?

Dr. Kate Moncrief: I mean, she really calls him out on what are we doing here and the intellectual relationship they’ve developed with each other.

Brendon Fox: Right.

Dr. Kate Moncrief: She expects him to teach her.

Brendon Fox: And, the interesting thing is she does not expect her parents. She does not expect anyone else in the world, literally. She’s a pretty privileged person at this time of the world in England, and she’s got a lot of resources. But also the fact that. It’s interesting, too, Jennifer, that. I mean, Kate, tell me if this is accurate, but I would imagine that many houses of this time and this status are not spending a lot of money on tutors for their daughters.

Dr. Kate Moncrief: I was just going to say exactly the same thing. She’s very privileged and has a lot of resources, but she’s a girl. Although in some households, yes. daughters were educated. It was rare, but in some, it was true. Like in Lord Byron’s household, his daughter, Ada.

Brendon Fox: Yeah. M. And. And. And so I would imagine that Jeff. Septimus was tutoring both. Both her and her brother, but her brother is now about to go off to. Right.

Dr. Kate Moncrief: Eaton might be there because she has a brother. You know, he’s brought in to tutor the brother, and the sister gets tutored, too.

Brendon Fox: And she’s a much more interested pupil.

Geoffrey Wade: She’s a genius.

Brendon Fox: Right. So it actually. It gives Septimus some. You know, it’s more than. I mean, I can imagine, you know, Chris and Jeff, that you’re pretty lucky when you probably, if you ever correspond with other tutors or, you know, other people who have the privilege, the 1.0% of guys who could be hired to live, on an estate. Right. As a tutor. And the fact that, like, that alone is you’ve won the lottery. And the fact that nine times out of ten, you’re stuck with kids who do not appreciate everything you have to offer. And then the 0.0001% is you get Thomasina.

Geoffrey Wade: Yeah. Oh, yeah. I think he’s. I think he. You know, I love. The Greeks have, like, three different words for love, but I think he loves Thomasina. I think. I think, you know, in the agape sense or whatever it is, I think he knows what she is to some extent. And, Yeah. I mean, it’s fun talking to her. It’s fun.

Brendon Fox: Yeah. Unless it’s about carnal embrace and then it doesn’t become so fun.

Geoffrey Wade: Well, then it’s. Yeah.

Brendon Fox: Then it’s like, but how do I do this? Yeah. In a way that does not shut it down. Because it’s like. And I think you know her well enough to be like, she’s watching you. She’s listening to everything. It’s like that Sondheim song, Children Will Listen. She will. She’s gonna. She’s gonna catch you out if you BS her. And I love that we don’t see the beginning of your relationship. We get it to a point where there is such trust, and I think so. Then when you pick up with tea. That was the sin of Onan, wasn’t it? Septimus. I wonder. What if there’s an opportunity to make that her first big light bulb of, like, wait, I do remember that. I don’t remember the carne thing, because that wasn’t interesting, but I do remember the seed falling on the ground. So you know what I mean? And that could be kind of fun if, like, oh, for you, Jeff. Oh, great. So that’s what you remember. Please, please don’t tell your parents. That’s. That was the takeaway. the. The fact that when it also strikes me as interesting, Jeff, that almost immediately, with. Only with the distraction of its own absurdities, and the next chunk you share with Thomasina, your own snarkiness about shader that you don’t have to do. You know what I mean? You could have kept it super profess and just being like, well, I’m reading this. Or, you know, but you actually kind of blur that line too.

Geoffrey Wade: Oh, yeah, that’s what I mean. He talks to her. You know, he talks to her like a person. He. He. Yes. I think that’s. That’s the kind of exchange that tells me again how. How, mature for whatever it is their relationship is, or how hard he holds her in and the fact that.

Brendon Fox: You can trust her. Right. I mean, you could say these things to her that could. Another child. Another child of her age could. It could get back to chador. But to me, it tells me that you not only respected her, you trust that I can say this to you off the cuff and it’s not going to bite me in the butt later, right? And it does kind of show me, Taya, that I love that you jumped on the. Oh, my God, he’s written a poem. What? Right. I love that. And that’s the 13 year old too. Now it’s bright shiny object, right? Well, tell me about. Let’s talk about that. And that seems great, Jeff. Good. Now we’re not talking about sex anymore. We’re not. No more carnal brace. Let’s let. I’m happy to trash Jader and the poem as long as we’re in old. Circle back to that, right? But then I love that you. You again. You can’t help yourself, Jeff. Of. I think there’ll be more carnality in your algebra than Mr. You know, cheater’s couch of Eros. And then that’s when we start to. We have that first pause, right, Jeff? Of the discovering carnal embrace in the gazebo. And then you start to prod, right? The. With whom did Jellyby happen to say.

Geoffrey Wade: Well, yeah, I have to find out how much trouble I’m in, right?

Brendon Fox: So. And the fact that you jump right into that. Of that. Oh, shit. How much trouble am I in? Is your first big slip up, right? That Tay is like. What do you mean? With whom? Yeah, so. And that’s great, Jeff. You have to really strip the gears. No, no. Oh, my bad, my bad. Did I stay with whom? What? That was that. That. I don’t know what I was thinking. Right? That’s. So that. That’s the. The start of kind of. You can’t. Because also, I feel like, Jeff, this is your one shot before anyone comes in. There’s urgency, right? It’s like, well, if this is out, who knows? And I’ve got to shut this down ASAP because somebody’s going to come into this room. You know what I mean? This is not a private. You’re not in Lady Croon’s closet. M. Or this, is a pretty open space here. So I also love that. That kind of gives. There’s some stakes to. Okay, tell me quick, what is happening with. What’s going on out there? Tell me about this Carnot embrace. could we jump in? Taya, with the. Our Mr. Shader has written a poem. Can we just do a little bit of that?

Téa Guarino: Our Mr. Chater has written a poem.

Geoffrey Wade: He believes he’s written a poem. Yes. I can see that there might be more carnality in your algebra than in Mr. Chaytor’s couch of Eros.

Téa Guarino: Oh, it was not my algebra. I heard Jellyby telling cook that Mrs. Chaytor were discovered in a carnal embrace in the gazebo.

Geoffrey Wade: Really? With Hm? Whom did Jellyby happen to say?

Téa Guarino: What do you mean? With whom?

Geoffrey Wade: With what? exactly. So the idea is absurd. Where did this story come from?

Téa Guarino: Mr. Noakes. Mr. Noakes, Papa’s landscape gardener. M. He was taking bearings in the garden when he saw through his spyglass. Mrs. Chater in the gazebo in carnal embrace.

Geoffrey Wade: You mean to tell me that Mr. Noaks told the butler?

Téa Guarino: No, Mr. Noakes told Mr. Cher. Jellyby was told by the groom who overheard Mr. Noakes telling Mr. Cher in the stable yard.

Chris Guilmet: Mr.

Geoffrey Wade: Chair.

Brendon Fox: Wait one second. Sorry, Téa So I think that’s the first time you mentioned the groom. Right. In all this. So I think we have to pop that more. Now we have an eighth person.

Jennifer Le Blanc: Yeah.

Brendon Fox: See what I mean? So keep. I think you have to introduce each character with a bit more.

Téa Guarino: Gotcha.

Brendon Fox: Right.

Téa Guarino: Got it.

Brendon Fox: go ahead.

Geoffrey Wade: Do you mean to tell me that Mr. Noakes told the butler?

Téa Guarino: No, Mr. Noakes told Mr. Chater. Jellyby was told by the groom who overheard Mr. Noakes telling Mr. Chaytor in the stable yard.

Geoffrey Wade: Mr. Chaytor being engaged in closing the stable door.

Téa Guarino: What do you mean? Septimus?

Brendon Fox: Okay, so, Jeff, I have a huge question here. What does he. What is he getting at? What’s the stable door moment?

Geoffrey Wade: He’s closing the barn door after the horse is already out.

Brendon Fox: Oh, that’s. Okay.

Geoffrey Wade: That’s the expression. I mean, his wife is. Yes, his wife is already out in the package. Village notice board.

Brendon Fox: Yeah.

Geoffrey Wade: Which apparently everybody knows except for Mr. Shader.

Brendon Fox: Right, right. Yes. That’s. That’s great.

Geoffrey Wade: I mean, that’s. That’s a. That’s a. That’s a. Yeah, it seems.

Brendon Fox: Yeah. So this is Septimus being clever for Septimus in a way, because that’s going right over her head. Okay. Okay, cool.

Geoffrey Wade: And this question, I do just. I just flat out don’t answer it at all.

Brendon Fox: Yes. Yes.

Geoffrey Wade: Move on to the next thing.

Brendon Fox: So can we go back to. And do you mean to tell me that Mr. Noakes told the butler?

Geoffrey Wade: M. And do you mean to tell me that Mr. Noaks told the butler?

Téa Guarino: No, Mr. Noakes told Mr. Chater. Jellyby was told by the groom who overheard Mr. Noakes telling Mr. Chater in.

Geoffrey Wade: The stable yard, Mr. Chaytor being engaged in closing the stable door.

Téa Guarino: What do you mean, Septimus M. So.

Geoffrey Wade: Thus far, the only people who know about this are, Mr. Noakes, the landscape guard, architect, the groom, the butler, the cook, and of course, Mrs. Chaytor’s husband, the poet, and.

Téa Guarino: And Arthur, who was cleaning the silver and the boot boy. And now you, of course.

Geoffrey Wade: What, else did he say, Mr. Noakes? no, not Mr. Noakes. Jellyby. You heard Jellyby telling the cook?

Téa Guarino: Cook hushed him almost as soon as he started. Jellyby did not see that I was being allowed to finish yesterday’s upstairs rabbit pie before I came to my lesson. I think you have not been candid with me, Septimus. A gazebo is not, after all, a meat larder.

Geoffrey Wade: Ah. I, never, said my definition was complete.

Téa Guarino: Is Connor embrace kissing?

Geoffrey Wade: Yes.

Téa Guarino: And throwing one’s arms around Mrs. Chaytor?

Geoffrey Wade: Yes. Now, Femat’s last theory.

Téa Guarino: I hope you are ashamed. I, milady, if you do not teach me the true meaning of things, who will?

Geoffrey Wade: Ah. yes, I am. M ashamed. Carnal embrace is sexual congress, which is the insertion of the male genital organ into the female genital organ for purposes of procreation and pleasure. Fermat’s last theorem, by contrast, asserts that when X, Y, and Z are whole numbers, each raised to the power of N, the sum of the first two can never equal the third when n is greater than 2. Well, nevertheless, that is the theorem.

Téa Guarino: It is disgusting and incomprehensible. Now, when I’m grown to practice it myself, I shall never do so without thinking of you.

Geoffrey Wade: Thank you very much, my lady. was Mrs. M. Chaytor down this morning?

Téa Guarino: No. Tell me more about sexual congress.

Geoffrey Wade: There is nothing more to be said about sexual congress.

Téa Guarino: Is it the same as love?

Geoffrey Wade: Oh, no, it’s much nicer than that.

Brendon Fox: Great. Let’s hold there. I love that. Now that she’s disgusted by it. Thank you very much. I’ve done my job. That struck me this time of perfect. Good. Ew. Ew. Ew. Yes, absolutely. I’m great with that reaction. No notes.

Geoffrey Wade: We’re not gonna. Yeah, we’re not gonna talk about that anymore, I guess.

Brendon Fox: Right, But. And you kind of saved it, right, Jeff? It’s like, you went through the last four pages, you know, skiing the double diamond slope through all of this, and you take the plunge. You. You make it totally technical. She gets grossed out, and you’re like, excellent. That’s exactly what I was hoping for. Okay, but then your neck. I love that you go back to the urgent problem of. Okay, but tell me about, let’s go back to Mrs. Chaytor for a second.

Geoffrey Wade: The actual. Yes, the thing is right now. Yeah, okay. Yeah.

Brendon Fox: And, and the last thing I want to mention that we’ll come back to next week is it’s much nicer than that to me feels like that mo that going back to what we talked about with, with Jennifer and you Chris of oh no, love sucks. No, love’s the worst actually. You know, because it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s like it’s this whole idea of love and sex but this idea of these moments that Septimus is saying things that he kind of almost nose will go over her head but you just have to say it, you have to, you have to put it out there. And I, I think that there’s just some really. Is it, you know, is it the same as love? It’s m. Much nicer than that. It’s not just clever, it’s actually honest of. Yeah, I, I There, there is that what, what you’re feeling for lady croom is not fun.

Geoffrey Wade: Yeah.

Brendon Fox: Yeah, go ahead.

Geoffrey Wade: Love is pain. Yeah, love is pain.

Brendon Fox: So I think there’s an opportunity when we come back to that Jeff of like what happens if we show another shade there that passes over us a little bit. Just see what happens with in terms of you know that it’s, it’s like even if we forego a little bit of the clever spin, it’s a chance for him to share. I mean that’s what’s interesting is that he, he’s, you know, he’s kind of lonely. I mean he does end up being a hermit. And what’s fascinating as I’m, as I’m working with you all today is it’s striking me how it’s beautiful and also really sad that he can, can share all this with Thomasina. His closest peer is a 13 year old girl genius. And so he’s, he has this great job people would kill for in London and yet you know, you’re, you’re, you’re sharing these things with her that are maybe not super appropriate, but who else can you share them with?

Geoffrey Wade: Yeah, exactly.

Dr. Kate Moncrief: Brendan kind of put one little spin on great job. Because this is, you know, if you’re somebody who has money, you, you’re not, you don’t have to do this job. So this is maybe a guy who went to Oxford, who went to Cambridge and he might not have other Options. And if you read a bunch of 19th century literature, being a governess or a tutor kind of sucked. Man. You’re stuck on some old estate. You don’t even like eat with the family. You’re the help. You have this like great mind. And it’s, you know, there were real challenges in a, in a job like this, including loneliness. And if you know, his only peer, like to amplify what you’re saying there, his only peer is, is a 13 year old genius. And that’s great that he’s got somebody, but the job itself is. Got some downsides.

Brendon Fox: Well, and Chris, this is something I want us, we can explore with you and Jennifer next week. Is that like the status is also this other great thing to add to that scene of like, you are here at her whim. Right. She runs the house, not her husband. We don’t know anything about Mr. Croom. And as she says, very blatantly banishment. I am God. And I will make it super clear. So I think this other thing about wanting her, loving her, you know, as much as she does that, like, it’s a little like Twelfth Night. It’s like, how could I love you? How could I, as Viola, love Orsino? And there’s a, that that gap is going off of. What Kate’s saying is that like, I am not in any way the equal here. I am, I’m here at your behest. And at any second it could be pulled out. Right. So even though there is an effort. Let’s go. I’ll say this throughout your entire time here, there is a sense of having to walk on those eggshells. You know, you do not love the lady of the house. You know, even if you hook up with, someone of power you do not love because that will break your heart. That is not. Nothing good can come from that. So to me it implies that when you say that, Jeff, what I hear is this your feelings for Lady Croom have already been set in motion.

Geoffrey Wade: Right? Right, Right, right, right, right.

Brendon Fox: And yet you don’t, you don’t know what to do with them. Hey, Nathan.

Nathan Agin: Hey there. No, this is great. There’s so much great discussion already happening. I was fortunate to play Septimus about 10 years ago. And I just remember, I think the actors are experiencing this, that it’s just so much fun wrapping your mouth around these lines for all the characters. There’s just so much fun with this stuff. and I love the moments of specificity. You guys are already kind of exploring and going, what can we do this year? And what surprised me this. And learning us. We’re learning here. and just the general discussion of some of the themes that, we’re covering in these scenes. It’s really wonderful. So I want to thank everybody. It’s been so much fun to be a fly on the wall for this process. So thank you all for such a great, great first session. And we’re just getting started. so for those of us tuning in, watching, listening, come on back, there’ll be even more discussion. our other actor, Jellyby Jamie, will be here for the next ones and for the remaining ones. So, yeah, excited. Keep, exploring these two scenes from Arcadia. Thank you guys so much, again, for your time and talents, and it’s been, just wonderful.

Brendon Fox: Thank you, everybody.

Nathan Agin: Yeah, have a great week. Have a great night. we’ll talk again soon. See you next time.

Brendon Fox: Bye.