Week 1 – Shakespeare’s “Macbeth” – 2 scenes – The Rehearsal Room [Video, Audio, and Transcript versions]

Nathan Agin

Hi there, I’m Nathan Agin and welcome to the Working Actors Journey Rehearsal Room. We started this project in June, 2020, and came out of what we could do with all of the time during the pandemic. We found that having the time to deeply explore just one scene over a month, or as you’ll see here, a couple scenes as really excited, everybody involved for those. Familiar with John Barton’s playing Shakespeare series. That was, I think, probably in the late seventies, early eighties. I see this as kind of a springboard from that. 

We are unlike them unscripted, totally unscripted. It’s a wonderful way to see the creative process in real time. And for those who are new here, what you’re gonna see tonight and over the next few weeks is not meant to be a final performance. It’s rather a continued work in progress. 

As the actors and all the artists are working through this, I see the, the goals and the mission of the rehearse room in several ways. One is for an opportunity for artists of different generations and backgrounds to collaborate, learn from one another, and to continue the lineage of honing this craft by actually doing the work. The rehearsal room continues the great theatrical history of apprenticeship where newer and younger artists get to see up close how the professionals work after 30, 40, 50 plus years. The questions to ask, how to explore, how to communicate, how to take direction, all the good things that come from, you know, doing this work. And one of the things I love about the rehearsal room here is that it’s never been a top down structure. 

There, there, there’s no lecture component here. There are great ideas and questions coming from all directions, and everybody has been so welcoming of that dynamic. 

We can also explore different casting. Being more conscious to gender, age, or race than theater sometimes can be, you may s some ideas of that may come up over these sessions. And certainly in some of our other sessions you can see that at play. Some of the ideas that come to mind is, you know, seeing actors in their seventies play the lovers in a Midsummer night stream. You know, just, there’s a lot that can be gleaned when you have just different perspectives and fresh perspectives coming to these roles. 

And what I love, and this is certainly evidence here with this group, you can bring artists together from all over the place. Sometimes people that haven’t worked together in 20 plus years, or they’ve never worked together, but they just knew of each other. And, and that’s really a wonderful thing we can do with this medium. 

We will continue posting the weekly sessions on YouTube for free for all to enjoy. So be sure to subscribe to the channel, click for notifications so you know exactly when we’re uploading new stuff. And you can support the project via Patreon and get early access to all the sessions starting at just $5 per month. Huge. What, what, what a deal. Only $5 a month. And you get to learn from all these great artists. 

I will say thank you to some of our patrons at the CoStar level. And higher we have Joan, Michelle, Jim Magdalene, evar, Claudia, cliff, and Jeff, thank you very much for helping us keep these administrative lights on. And if you have any questions or ideas or suggestions for things that you’d like to see either in the coming weeks or in future sessions, drop a comment below. We’d love to hear your thoughts and suggestions. So with that, we’re gonna do a quick introduction of all the players here. And then we will get right into rehearsal. As I mentioned, I’m Nathan, I’m way up in rural Northern California. 

Actor, producer, do a lot of audio books these days and, and this, so that’s, that’s what I’m up to. I will pass it over to our director, Nick, and we’ll go from there. Hi 

Nick Cagle

everyone. It’s an honor to be here with three friends of mine, actually with Gideon, mark and Megan. Mark. Megan and I have all worked together on separate occasions, but never the three of us. And I’ve been lucky to work with Gideon a few times with the Working Actors journey. And I always feel that October is a good month for Macbeth. 

It seems as the days darken and winter approaches, it feels like a good time to grab the essence of this play. One of my favorite plays. I was lucky enough to perform in it once and play Macbeth. Mark and I went to two schools together, the Boston Conservatory and Lambda. Megan and I have done a thousand productions together. Countless I’ve been lucky each time. I’m an actor and a director and occasional producer. And it’s an honor to be here today. Megan. 

Oh, here she comes. Mark, can you tell us a little bit about, tell us. 

Mark Lawson

Sure. I’m Mark and Nick. You stole a couple of the things I was gonna, I was gonna, you already teed them up, but I can add to it and say, Nick and I have the same birthday a year apart. And I’ve always admired Nick. I was kind of, I was a year younger than, or sooner than him in school. I was, I was a year behind him and was always kind of chasing him, I think. And so every now and then he gets these text messages from me, what do you think of this? And it’s a video of me sitting in my car doing a Shakespeare monologue and he graciously gives me some feedback. 

I think my intro to Shakespeare was probably like most people when I was in like sixth grade. And we read Romeo and Juliet and it just immediately pulled me in as one, something challenging that I kind of got an idea about that most of my classmates didn’t. And so that kind of pulled me through my entirety of school until I got to Lambda. And then they said, we’re doing King Lear. We’re not split casting it and you’re gonna play King Lear. And it was like a week to learn 800 lines, which I dutifully did, and I don’t know how. And I translated that to soap operas for four years and, and learning a hundred pages a day. So I’m really excited about this. 

I’ve been, I always pick up this play when I’m trying to just kind of keep the mojo going. So I’m very excited to do this and I’m very excited to meet all of you. 

Nathan Agin

Welcome, mark. Thank you very much. And Megan, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Sorry about that. I am currently at my parents’ house in Massachusetts, and their dog was sleeping on the bed and then she decided it was time to leave, so I had to go, go grab her. But yeah, normally I am in LA or Atlanta. 

Shakespeare is my guy. He’s, that’s always been the, the the way that he uses language to express humanity has always really resonated with me. And the ability to say multiple things at the same time and to challenge us the way he challenged his audience. It’s all fabulous. I have a, a Shakespeare education company. I started after grad school called Breaking Bard. So I’ve been doing language workshops and coaching and stuff like that. 

But getting to say the speeches are always the, the best way. And I have never played Lady MI have auditioned a few times and things have just never worked out. So to get to, to do this stuff, I have such strong opinions about her and about the story and about the way to make it human and not just a ghost story or a stereotype of, you know, good versus evil or like these are human beings in, in, in the world and how they’re interacting with both each other. And the supernatural and ambition and all of the above I think is pretty fascinating. So I’m excited to play. 

Nathan Agin

Excellent. Wonderful. And Mr. Gideon? 

Gideon Rappaport

Hello. So I’ve been teaching Shakespeare for n on to 50 years at every level and working as a dramaturg in the theater. 

I’ve written several books. I wrote a book called Appreciating Shakespeare and I edited Hamlet, a thoroughly annotated edition of Hamlet ’cause nobody understands that play properly these days. And so I needed to do that to prove my points. 

And I’ve put out a book on Shakespeare’s figures of speech, which is Shakespeare’s rhetorical figures, an outline, just listing them all and giving examples. 

And now I’m working on a book on paradox, which is gonna come out soon, not about Shakespeare. Anyway, since I retired from teaching, I’ve been writing books and I’ve taught this play probably, well, I taught for 40 years, so I’ve probably taught it 35 or 40 times and worked on it. So it, I know it pretty well. And it’s, it’s short and one of the very greatest plays. I’m, I’m might end up grappling with Megan A. Little about good and evil ’cause it’s, it’s in addition to everything else she said, it is actually also about good and evil. But I’ll leave that for the particular lines. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

But 

Gideon Rappaport

Not just good 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

And evil, 

Gideon Rappaport

not just good and evil. Correct. So that’s about enough to say. I just, I wanted to add to what Nathan said that anyone watching who has questions during the session, if you’re watching live, put them in the, in the chat and Nathan will field them for us at the end of the session. Isn’t that right, Nathan? I think that’s right. 

Nathan Agin

Typically, we, we don’t have too much of a live audience, so it’s more just the replay, but pe but people can certainly leave comments and questions on, on YouTube or, or elsewhere and then we can always try to bring those up, deal with it. 

Gideon Rappaport

The Next 

Nathan Agin

Session. 

Nick Cagle

The next session. 

Nathan Agin

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. 

Gideon Rappaport

Great. Thank you. 

Nathan Agin

Yes, no problem. Well, it’s, it’s great to, you know, see everybody, mark, I’m thrilled that you know, you can join us. Megan, welcome back to this and, and Nick as well. And you know, what I’m excited about is both Mark and Megan, you talked about, you know, thinking a lot about these characters and, and with, you know, wanting to play these characters. And, and that’s one of the great joys of, of these series is that you get to now play the work on these characters and, and it’s not necessarily hoping and wishing and waiting for production to cast you. It’s like, yeah, you get to work on ’em and, and you get to really dive into ’em. And so I I love that we can create those opportunities and spaces for you guys to, to do some serious work on ’em. 

So, very excited for the weeks ahead. I’m gonna, I’m, I’m gonna hang out in the recesses of the, of the theater in the, in the dark seats. So I will try to check back in at the end, but have a great, great rehearsal. 

Nick Cagle

Thank you, Nathan. Well, how’s everybody doing? 

Gideon Rappaport

Good. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Good. 

Nick Cagle

Feeling relaxed 

Mark Lawson

now? I’m feeling a little nervous to be honest with you. You 

Nick Cagle

know what, the reason that we’re here is exactly what just went on between Gideon and Megan. We’re gonna, we get to discuss this all the way down for a month, two scenes to the bare bones of the language, which is the fun part about all of this. And, and Gideon is excellent with the words and, and I love having him on board because, you know, he gets to, we, we can discuss each and every word. I think we’re gonna have to take a look at a couple of the other scenes too. I think we’re gonna have to look at one five, Megan, where she reads the letter, we’re gonna have to look at the letter a little bit. And, and then we’ll have to take a look at the scene in between these two, between one seven and two two where we have the dagger speech that Macbeth talks about. I think both of these scenes inform what, what we’re looking at right now. You agree, Gideon? 

Gideon Rappaport

Yes, absolutely, of course. But particularly we need to read the last speech of Macbeth before the explosion, before he comes in having done the D ’cause the contrast in the way the verse works is one of the great dramatic moments in the play. 

Nick Cagle

Indeed, indeed. So I, I wrote a little outline of sort of what happens before the first scene that we’re working on before one seven, and we can tell our audience about it a little bit for those of us who’ve never read the play. So basically, I, I wrote on a bleak Scottish more just ’cause bleak is a fun word to say. Macbeth and wo returning from battle, meet three witches who make three prophecies. One that Macbeth will be the tha of Kado. Two, that Macbeth will be the king of Scotland. And three that bank’s sons will be King Macbeth comes back and the witch’s first prophecy comes true. King Duncan makes him tha of Cador. 

Then King Duncan visits Macbeth’s castle and Lady Macbeth persuades Macbeth to murder King Duncan in his sleep to make the second prophecy come true. Now she hears about all of this through a letter that Macbeth sends to her. 

Gideon, would you like to fill in some blanks in there? 

Gideon Rappaport

One or two. The fe of Kodo was a rebel against the king and, but he died having been caught. He was caught and put to death as a rebel. But he repented at the last moment before he was executed in a sincere way. And by the end of the play, Macbeth, who is also Thain of Qar dies not have not repenting. So there’s a wonderful intensity there. And, and in the scene where that’s said, there’s a great rhyme of death and Macbeth that Shakespeare milks for all it’s worth there. 

And the other thing I’d add to what you said is that you kind of prejudged the case when you said late Macbeth persuades Macbeth to murder the king. As if the idea starts with her, it starts with both of them and they reinforce each other and she needs to reinforce him in most of what we’re gonna be talking about in our sessions. But they are really two sides of one coin. They are the male and female aspects of this same thing. And the thing which I agree with Megan, cannot be reduced to a single word or phrase or idea. That’s why the play has to exist. That that thing is expressed and conveyed and articulated by both of them in their distinct ways to get us to, to get kind of hone in on what it is that that’s really motivating them. So that’s, that’s really all I wanna say right now. 

Nick Cagle

Should we read it? Yeah, yeah. Let’s go ahead and read one seven and then discuss 

Mark Lawson

Preparatory drink of water. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah, I’m gonna turn my camera off. 

Mark Lawson

Oh, If it were done, winter is done into will it were done quickly. If the assassination could trammel up the consequence and catch with his cese success, that, but this blow might be the be all and the end all here. But here upon this bank and shoal of chime, we jump to life to come. But in these cases, we still have judgment here that we but teach bloody instructions, which being taught return to plague the inventor. 

This even handed justice commends the ingredients of our poison chalice to our own lips. He’s here in double trust. 

First is I, Ms. Kinsman and his subject strong both against the deed. Then as his host, who should against his murderer shut the door. Not bear the knife myself. Besides this Duncan hath born his faculty. So meek hath been so clear in his great office that his virtues will plead like angels trumpet tongue against the deep damnation of his taking off and pity like a naked newborn babe striding the blast or heaven’s cherub and hors upon the sightless couriers of the air shall blow the horrid deed in every eye that tears shall drown the wind. 

I have no spur to prick the side of my intent, but only vaulting ambition which will leaps itself and falls upon. 

Oh no. What news? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

He is almost sucked. Why have you left the chamber? Have he asked for me? No, you not. He has, 

Mark Lawson

We will proceed no further in this business. He has honored me of late and I have bought golden opinions of all sorts of people, which would be worn now in their newest gloss. Not cast aside so soon 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Was the hope drunk wherein you dressed yourself has it slept since and wakes it now to look so green and pale at what it did so freely from this time such I account thy love are thou are feared to be the same in th own act and valor as thou art and desire. W thou have that which thou esteems to the ornament of life and live a coward in th own esteem. Letting I dare not wait upon I would like the poor cat in the adage Really peace. I 

Mark Lawson

dare do all that may become a man who daress do more is none 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

What beast was then that made you break this enterprise to me. When you durst do it, then you were a man and to be more than what you were, you would be so much more the man nor time nor place did than adhere. And yet you would make both. They have made themselves and that their fitness now does unmake you I have given suck and know how tender to love the babe that milks me. I would while it was smiling in my face, have plucked my nipple from its boneless gums and dashed the brains out. Had I so sworn as you have done to this, We should fail. We fail. But screw your courage to the sticking place and will not fail when Duncan is asleep. Whereto the rather shall his days hard journey ly invite him. His two chamberlains will I with wide and w so convinced that memory, the water of the brain shall be a fume and the receipt of reason limbic only when in swish sleep their drenched natures lie as in a death. 

What cannot you and I perform upon the unguarded Duncan, what not put upon his spongy officers who shall bear the guilt of our great quell 

Mark Lawson

Bring forth men, children only for the undaunted metal should compose no thing but males will they not be received when we have marked with blood those sleepy two of his own chamber and use their very daggers that they have done 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Who dares receive it other as we shall make our griefs and clamor roar upon his death. 

Mark Lawson

I’m settled. End up every corporal agent to this terrible feat away and mock the time with Ferris Cho. False face must hide what? False heart death. No. 

Nick Cagle

Okay, well we’re done. Thanks everyone for being here. See you guys later. 

Gideon Rappaport

Yeah, that was a great performance. I only had five notes and I guess 

Nick Cagle

I guess it’ll 

Gideon Rappaport

take us a day instead of a a month. 

Nick Cagle

That was good. We’ve already we’re done. Gideon, why don’t you go first? Okay, 

Gideon Rappaport

So five things. 1, 1, 2, 3. Yeah, the first is I want you to distinguish between in jam lines and end stop lines because this is Shakespeare’s mature, mature period and he’s using a lot of encampments on purpose, much more than he did in the early plays of the period of Romeo and Julia, Richard II and so on. So just be aware of that. I’m not gonna force readings on you, but be aware when a line wraps onto the next line and when there really is an end stop line 14, i I sent you a copy of the text as I it for myself. So the line numbers might be a little different. 

I don’t know if you’re looking at that one or the original Folger. 

Mark Lawson

I’ve Got, I’ve got three different options plus yours here. 

Gideon Rappaport

Oh, Okay. Alright, good. So at my line 14 strong both against the deed, I would hit against harder here. The the reasons he’s, he’s giving reasons why they shouldn’t do it. 

Mark Lawson

Sure. 

Gideon Rappaport

So I think you need to bring out against a little bit line 53. What was that? Oh, you said does unmake you with a question, Megan? 

And I think it’s an accusation. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah, no, I was just a, yeah, 

Gideon Rappaport

I heard the irony in it and it’s possible. I’m not saying don’t do it like that, but 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

No, it wasn’t really like a conscious choice. It was just a, it was an in the moment, yeah. Moment. 

Gideon Rappaport

Okay. Okay. So I, it, it was kind of sarcastic and that’s good, but it didn’t seem to be strong enough. Okay. 61. The but in but screw your courage to the sticking place. It does mean, but but it also means only if you, if you will only screw, right? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Gideon Rappaport

Okay. So we need to hear both those meanings in it, if that’s possible. Okay. And then finally 77, I thought, mark, that you have to hit the they a little bit. I’m, I’m in the enemy of hitting pronouns. I’m going to stop you hitting pronouns where they’re not called for, but where they’re called for it’s, it’s prejudice not to hit them. So won’t it seem that they have done it instead of us? 

Mark Lawson

Sure. 

Gideon Rappaport

Yeah. Okay. That’s it. Those were my only notes. So minor. I mean, you guys are really good. 

Nick Cagle

The pronoun police. We are here, 

Gideon Rappaport

I’ll be on duty. Yes. 

Nick Cagle

I don’t think 

Mark Lawson

there’s, I’m surprised I didn’t get dinged for no thing. 

Gideon Rappaport

Oh, well, 

Mark Lawson

When I find one like that in the meter, that that just, it just calls out to me and I have to do it. Well I 

Gideon Rappaport

think it’s good to go with the meter first just to figure out what Shakespeare’s trying to get you to stress. And then you can adjust as you will, as I tell all my actors, number one, I tell all several things. One, if you want the audience to mean their applause, you have to mean what you’re saying, which means you have to know everything you’re saying. 

But the other is you. It’s your up there on the stage, not me. So you have to do what you want with the lines. And I just, I’m here for, you know, illumination and education, I guess. 

Mark Lawson

Well, I mean, since we’re dipping into the, to the, the words themselves, for me there’s so much talk about man versus beast and what what becomes a man and what’s, what’s animal. And the idea that when she has another child, it’ll be a thing and not necessarily a human because of the way we’re behaving. Like the, the, the fierceness of what she’s talking about Yes. Goes beyond human. 

Gideon Rappaport

And she builds on that when in her speech about unsexed. Mihir, that’s what that means. She wants to be made inhumanly. She wants her femininity to be abolished in favor of the cliche, you know, masculinity of strength and power and cruelty. She adds cruelty to it. So, and the same is true of this generation of the offspring. They both want them to be unnaturally, cruel and violent. 

And so they, they are at war with nature in, in their, even in their conversation with each other. 

Nick Cagle

What I loved about that reading is you guys already had that beautiful sense of quiet urgency behind these scenes that the two of them have. It’s almost like there’s constantly someone coming around the corner. And I, I love that feeling that exists between the two of them so much more than man. It’s, I I always laugh when she says that line ’cause it’s so like, damn, come on buddy. Let’s take a look at the, the first section until the full stop. We have Mark in your speech from, if it were done all the way until we jumped the life to come, could you just read that whole long section to the full stop? Yeah, 

Mark Lawson

Sure. If it were done, when is done, then we’re, well it were done quickly. If the assassination could tram up the consequence and catch with his ese success, that, but this blow might be the be all and the end all here. But here upon this bank and shoal of time, we jumped to life to come. 

But in these cases we still have 

Nick Cagle

That’s all right. You could stop right there. 

Mark Lawson

So 

Nick Cagle

that’s the beginning. That’s a big chunk to the full stop that Shakespeare’s given us right there. And there’s a, there’s, it looks like it’s in three sections and let’s break it up with some marks. If it were done Lere read the first part until the first full stop. So 

Mark Lawson

Okay. 

Nick Cagle

Just the first sentence, not quickly. 

Mark Lawson

The next one? Yeah, 

Nick Cagle

Just go Yeah. After quickly. Okay. 

Mark Lawson

Correct. 

Nick Cagle

If 

Mark Lawson

it were done when ti is done, then we’re, well it were done quickly 

Nick Cagle

And go on. It’s the next section. I’m interested in if the assassination, 

Mark Lawson

If the assassination could travel up the consequence and catch with his cise success. That, but this blow might be the be all and the end all here. 

But here, wait page 

Nick Cagle

Right there. So there’s a change, there’s something happening after the first here, right? Right. Might be the be all and the end all here. And then there’s a but Yes. 

Mark Lawson

Sorry, I didn’t Stop on it. Right. I stopped there and it’s a comma. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah. I wonder what the, what the choice is. What, where something pops in his head right there. 

Mark Lawson

Well actually I think it even starts with if it were done. When is done, I feel like there’s actually an implied antithetical thought in the very first line. And I feel like that section continues that So 

Nick Cagle

like he’s canceling out the, if you mean yeah, 

Mark Lawson

If it were done when it, when when I do. Yes, 

Nick Cagle

Exactly. Yes. Yes. Definitely. So 

Mark Lawson

I will, let me see if I can bring that up. 

Gideon Rappaport

Can I add a couple things too? 

Nick Cagle

Please, please. 

Gideon Rappaport

Here is more important than you’re making it even the first time, the second time. But here upon this bank in show of time is an extension of the first one. And he’s distinguishing between here meaning in this life and the afterlife. That’s what’s going on here. So we jump, jump means risk. 

So we’re, I’m willing to risk the life to come if we can have success here. 

Nick Cagle

So there may be a vocal topping with the second, but here 

Gideon Rappaport

Yes. 

Nick Cagle

You know what I’m like technically Mark. Yep. Do you know what I’m saying? Like if you could try, if we could hear it one time, if you could go from it, 

Gideon Rappaport

It can mean, it can mean even just here, like without regard to anything after the be all and the end all. Just for, for this side of here 

Mark Lawson

In this moment? 

Gideon Rappaport

No, just for this side of death. Okay. Like, I don’t care what happens to my soul, I only ca care about becoming the king. 

Mark Lawson

Okay. Yeah. 

Nick Cagle

So let, let’s just hear that the, if from, if the assassination could trammel all the way to, we jump the life to come. 

Mark Lawson

Okay. If the assassination could trammel up the consequence and catch with his ee success, that, but this blow might be the be all and the end all here, but here 

Nick Cagle

Yeah. But here 

Mark Lawson

upon this bank and shoal of time, we jumped to life to come. 

Nick Cagle

Now That’s Great. Even just that, that decision that you were making right there. Yeah. Makes it so clear, mark. Yeah. You know, just, just that you gave it like a Yeah. It just pushes up and enhances the, the next, the next decision that he’s making. 

Gideon Rappaport

And you want, you can bring out this bank in show of time as opposed to the other side. 

Nick Cagle

Oh, that’s good. Yeah. Interesting. 

Mark Lawson

Ah, if we’re on the talking about the river sticks, I mean I’m just, Ima I’m just throwing that out there. Okay. Right. Okay. 

Nick Cagle

Let, let’s go on and push through. I think you got that. 

Mark Lawson

Yeah. 

Nick Cagle

Let’s go from, but it, but in these cases, and there’s another here coming. 

Mark Lawson

Yeah. Well, and this is his rational. This is, 

Gideon Rappaport

This is a contrary argument now. 

Mark Lawson

Right. But in these cases, we still have judgment here, but in these cases, we still have judgment here that we be teach bloody instructions, which being taught return to plague the inventor, 

Gideon Rappaport

Even here, even before the afterlife. 

Mark Lawson

But in these cases we still have judge we, but in these cases, we still have judgment here that we, but teach bloody instructions, which being taught return to plague the inventor. This even handed justice commends the ingredients of our poison chalice to our own lips. 

He’s here in double trust. First is Imus kinsman and his subject strong both against the deed. Then as his host who showed against his murderer, shut the door. Not bear the knife myself. 

Besides, besides this Duncan Heth born his faculty. So Meek Heth been so clear in his great office that his virtues will plead like angels trumpet tongue against the deep damnation of his taking off and pity. This is where I get stuck and, and pity and pity like a naked newborn babe striding the blast or heaven’s cher and hors upon the sightless couriers of the air shall blow the horrid deed in every eye that tears shall drown the wind. I have no spur to prick the sides of my intent, but only vaulting ambition, which or leaps itself and falls on the other. 

Oh, now what news? 

Nick Cagle

Good, good. It’s interesting. I feel like the end has some similarities in, in sort of vibe to the, to be or not to be speech. It, it, it, it feels, I I don’t know. You can t help me with this. Gideon, it feels unresolved. Like, like there’s a whole nother speech that’s still ahead, but he is interrupted. Well 

Gideon Rappaport

actually the whole other speech is gonna come from her. So he’s of two minds here and he’s, he concludes by saying the only spur I have is ambition and that that’s inconclusive until later in the scene. So you’re absolutely right. It’s a, it’s an open question right now. He’s given the reasons that it should happen quickly and that it’s, he wants to do it and then he, and then he gives the reasons it shouldn’t be done. And then he gives the only reason that’s motivating him to do it. So it’s a like a three part 

Nick Cagle

Speech. 

Gideon Rappaport

Yeah. 

Nick Cagle

Mark, tell me what you think about this. I feel like when I hear you read it, there’s, there’s a change that wants to come after wind, after the tears shall drown the wind. Yeah. 

Gideon Rappaport

Yeah. 

Nick Cagle

And he goes into, I have no spur. I feel I, I don’t know. There feels like you wanna make an adjustment there and I, I like, I like whatever that choice is. 

Mark Lawson

Yeah. I, thanks. I think, I think that’s, I think he was 50 50 before he starts talking and I think at this point, no, I think he was actually closer towards doing it. And I think he’s actually spoke, he’s kind of talked himself back off the cliff a little bit and has decided he can’t do it. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah. 

Gideon Rappaport

It’s hor it’s horrible. What, what he thinks of the result of doing it. 

Mark Lawson

Well He 

Gideon Rappaport

uses the word damnation and then the whole world is going to be against him, including nature tears, water will drown the wind there. The two, the two elements 

Nick Cagle

I, I would ask, I would give you a little homework with this speech and that’s to really take a look at the last words of every line. 

Mark Lawson

Yes. 

Nick Cagle

You know, catch and blow and time and cases and teach and return. If you can sort of, you know, the penny churns it. 

Mark, he, she was a teacher that we had in college that was real big on that. But it was, it, it, it seems to be helpful as I listen to you read it, to, to build to those, you know, and create that momentum to the full stops. 

Mark Lawson

It’s funny you say it ’cause I’ve literally been walking around tapping my chest, like finding the n words if I don’t have the text in my hand. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah, yeah. Especially, you know, I don’t know. I don’t know. And Gideon, for some reason he, hi, the verse is in amazing to me in this play. Like, it, it all of Shakespeare’s place, but something about this particular play, like he was really on fire when he was riding it. 

Gideon Rappaport

Absolutely. At the peak of his, peak of his gift. 

Nick Cagle

I don’t know. Yeah. 

Gideon Rappaport

I would, what what I would add to what you’re saying is it’s always good to do that as a study, but it, you mustn’t lash yourself to it like a slave because it’s, any, any such rule that you embrace too automatically hardens you to the actual flow, the living flow of the verse. So what, what my challenge would be is after you’ve done that, then go back to the actual sense of the sentence. I mean obviously it’s all built on I am big pentameter, I want that to be there. But but clarify the sense of the sentence in the light of all that other work, because that’s what’s going to ring in the audience. 

The, the, the, the, the power of the verse Shakespeare’s already done. 

You, you don’t have to push that. It’s there. You just have to reveal it by meaning what the words mean and the verse then supports you. And it does, it does so much of the work for you. And especially, you’re right Nick, in this play, it’s, it’s really he’s at the peak of his power. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah. 

Mark Lawson

There’s literally absolutely, There’s a pulse in so much of this. 

Gideon Rappaport

Yeah. 

Nick Cagle

Very much. You can feel 

Mark Lawson

Like it’s a near panic attack for him in moments. You can feel that it speeds up and there’s a missed beat. And then it’s, and It, 

Nick Cagle

and she has an entirely different pulse, which is so interesting, but it, but it creates, it’s like an offbeat and a beat that creates perfect song. Like it’s fantastic 

Gideon Rappaport

And, and it’s act one. So he is still, he’s still on the edge. He’s still redeemable. 

Mark Lawson

Mm. 

Gideon Rappaport

He hasn’t actually gone over. And when he does go over, he’s gonna say, for my own good, all causes shall give way. Mm. 

Mark Lawson

And 

Gideon Rappaport

and there’s no going back at that point. 

Mark Lawson

Somebody, 

Gideon Rappaport

I just wanna say one thing about the last lines of this speech because the editors just go way off base I think in interpreting it 10 ways. 

And I just want you to know that to fall on means to attack in the Renaissance. 

Nick Cagle

Ah, 

Gideon Rappaport

So the vaulting ambition, he, he uses the metaphor of a horse and a spur and the horse is my intent and then, or leaps itself. So it means over jumps like a horse over jumping barrier. But it also means to go beyond one’s own place in the world in the universe. Hmm. It’s, it’s, it’s the, it’s the wrong kind of ambition. Macbeth is over leaping himself to become king when he is really not a king. He’s a thing. And so, and falls on the other means attack the other. So the vaulting ambition over overlaps itself and attacks Duncan attacks the other. And that’s, that leads to his, he thinks that’s gonna lead to the pleasure of being king if they can make it work. 

Right. If the, if we can travel up the consequence 

Nick Cagle

It’s in, in one five. Yeah. Lady Macbeth talks about his nature. We’ll have to take a look at that and, and the, we see what’s happening and this is her fear that he has, I forget what the line is, but that he has a little bit human. 

Gideon Rappaport

Yeah, 

Nick Cagle

Yeah. A little bit too much goodness in him for, for you know, what she wants to try to get out. But we’re gonna see Megan and what she wants 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Megan for himself. 

Nick Cagle

Megan’s gonna give himself. Yeah. What’d you say, Megan? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

What he wants for himself. It’s not just what she wants, it’s what he wants. She’s giving him what he wants. 

Nick Cagle

Ah, yes. I like that. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

That she’s not doing it for her. She’s doing it for him. 

Nick Cagle

I like that. I like that. Let’s move on and let’s bring her in. 

Can you just give us the end of your speech, 

Mark Lawson

mark? Sure, sure. I was just thinking about what Megan was, was just saying and I was thinking about, you know, knowing his secret desire, even if he’s barely given it voice, you know, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

And when he censor that letter and he is like, they said, I’m gonna be king, if he didn’t really believe it and want it and like there’s a part of him that’s, you know, wants to be drawn out, he wouldn’t have written it down. 

He wouldn’t have brought it to her. He wouldn’t have been like my dearest companion. Like Yeah, here we go. 

Gideon Rappaport

I think, I think he knows that there are of one mind in this. Yeah. 

Mark Lawson

And, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

And he knows he can’t do it without her and she knows he can’t do it without her. 

Gideon Rappaport

That’s right. Yeah. And when they separate, she’s the one to pull him back onto their path. 

Mark Lawson

Mm. 

Gideon Rappaport

But it’s a very bad path and it is not. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah. It’s, 

Gideon Rappaport

It’s not, it’s not for, it’s not actually for his sake to bring him back onto that path. Right. It’s for the sake of their both being these exalted things, king and queen. That’s their image of, of the, of the, the i I was thinking today in preparation for this, I was thinking about Shakespeare’s sonnet 1 29 about lust, the expense of spirit and a waste of shame is lust in action. And the whole thing about lust applies to their lust for power. It’s, it’s a kind of irrational mad lust for power, but controlled by a very strong intellect and will to make it happen. And make it work. Trammel up the consequence, make it make us succeed here and then forget the eternal consequences. 

Mark Lawson

Well and there’s 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

also, I always think it’s really interesting how fast he is willing to get rid of like eternal damnation. Like if that was all, if it was just eternal damnation, then that’s fine. 

Mark Lawson

Like 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yes, 

Gideon Rappaport

exactly. 

Mark Lawson

Well interesting that you say that. ’cause I was just thinking about the fact that all of this comes from the fact that he was so vicious and winning in battle and just soaked in blood and in a lot of ways I think probably has lost most of his faith in whatever comes next anyway because of the way he’s just been hacking through people. You know, there’s a, there’s a coldness that comes from just 

Gideon Rappaport

Yes. 

Mark Lawson

Which is why actually committing the act of killing someone who maybe wasn’t like his father but someone he respected and idolized. Like you’re killing Marcus Aurelius. At least in the way that I’m looking at it, you know, like it’s, you can kill a bunch of people but when you go to kill that one person and it, that’s the final straw. Anyway, sorry. 

Gideon Rappaport

And I think, I think to add to what you’re saying, he has achieved glory by killing. That’s his method for getting what he wants. And what he’s wanted up till now was to win for Duncan right against the rebels. But now he wants to win for himself against Duncan. And the obvious method is killing. 

Mark Lawson

Hmm. 

Nick Cagle

Well let’s see what the lady has to say about it. 

Mark Lawson

I have no spur to prick the sides of my intent, but only vaulting ambition which or leaps itself and falls on the other. 

How now what news? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

He has almost sucked. Why have you left the chamber? Kathy asked for me. 

Mark Lawson

No, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

you not. He has, We will 

Mark Lawson

proceed no further in this business. He has honored me of late and I have bought golden opinions from all sorts of people, which would be worn now in their newest gloss. Not cast aside so soon 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Was the hope drunk wherein you dressed yourself have it slept thin and wakes it now to look so green and pale at what it did so freely from this time such I account thy love are thou a feared to be the same in th own act and valor as thou art and desire which thou have that which thou esteems the ornament of life and live a coward in th own esteem. Letting I dare not wait upon I would like the poor cat in the adage really 

Mark Lawson

Peace, I dare do all that may become a man who dares do more is none. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

What beast was it then that made you break this enterprise to me? When you durst do it, then you were a man and to be more than what you were, you would be so much more. The man nor time nor place did then adhere. And yet you would make both nor time nor place did then adhere. And yet you would make both. They have made themselves and that their fitness now does un make you. And that their fitness now they have made themselves and that their fitness now does unmake. You I have given suck and know how tender it is to love the babe that milks me. I would while it was smiling in my face, have plucked my nipple from his boneless gums and dashed his brains out, dashed the brains out. 

Had I so sworn as you have done to this, If we should fail, We fail. 

But screw your courage to the sticking place and will not fail when Duncan is asleep. Where to the rather shall his days hard journey soundly invite him his two chamberlains will I with and waffle. So convinced that memory, the water of the brain shall be a fume and the receipt of reason a limbic only when in swish sleep their drenched nature lies as in a death. What cannot you and I perform upon the unguarded Duncan, what not put upon his spongy officers who shall bear the guilt of our great quell. 

Nick Cagle

Okay, let’s stop right there. There’s so much to unpack already. My goodness. How now what news? Let’s see, he has almost sucked. 

And then she comes right in with this question. I love her energy. Right? The about here. 

Let, let, let’s just read and stop and go a little bit. Is that okay? Sure. Let let’s start with how now, what news Mark, 

Mark Lawson

How now what news 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

If almost sucked, why have you left the chamber? 

Mark Lawson

Have he asked for me? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

No, you not. He has, 

Mark Lawson

We will proceed no further in this business. He has honored me of late and I have bought golden opinions of all sorts of people, which would be worn now in the newest gloss, not cast aside so soon. 

Nick Cagle

Okay, let’s look at that real fast. So it macbeth’s deciding to, it’s, it almost sounds like give give her an order or, or you know, a a command right there. Isn’t it? It’s interesting. What, what do you think about that choice, mark? 

Mark Lawson

Yeah, I think he’s saying we’re done. I was wrong. We’re moving on. We won’t talk about it. Moving on. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah. Yeah. It’s very interesting. He’s very adamant right there. He he makes, he makes the choice. That’s it. Yeah. What first Gideon, did you want to give a couple of notes on the, on the reading that they just had? I 

Gideon Rappaport

Only had two. I thought it was really beautifully done. Line 53 further down. They have made themselves, you can hit the va. 

I think it’s And it’s a demonstrative 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Program. 

Gideon Rappaport

Yes. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah. And that their fitness Now 

Gideon Rappaport

and that their fitness now does unmake you and then you can hit the u They’ve made themselves, it’s unmaking you So we have a double antithesis made an unmake, right? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah. 

Gideon Rappaport

Themselves and you and themselves and you. Yeah. That’s it. Those are my only notes. 

Nick Cagle

Awesome. Thank you. So Megan, what do you think that she wants from him? So he says, HANA, what news? And she says he is almost sucked. And then why is she asking that question? Why have you left the chamber? ’cause she knows that he’s a waffler and that that, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

that she’s gonna have to make sure he stays on track. And so he’s asking stupid Questions, 

Nick Cagle

You know, like, did he 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

ask about me? Like, dude, it’s your house that it’s, it’s I think a little bit of, I mean I, I I think of he’s been out here in, you know, the hallway or the pantry or something talking to himself and she’s been like, Hey, I’m at the dinner table with the king and everything’s great. And then, oh, he’s not here and you know, so she’s got this sense of like, let’s get you back in the, in the, the dining room and let’s keep doing what we’re doing. 

Nick Cagle

So she left, she left the dinner to go find him, right? Yes. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yes. 

Nick Cagle

And she’s got So 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

They have to get, get back. 

Nick Cagle

Yes. She’s gonna tell him to get back there. I see. And then so, and then, and then he, he comes right at her with this command and, and her response, what, what do you think she doesn’t seem to take, she doesn’t seem to like what he has to say there. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I think that this goes back to, we were talking about her, her oath scene where she’s, you know, unsexed, Mihir and all that, that she has abandoned her humanity. And so him saying like, she’s go, she’s she’s past the point of no return. And I’d be curious what, like, culturally at the time, was there something about like, you know, going back on like, okay, we’ve decided to do this thing and where is that morally? Like, is there a point of no return or is there like, now that we’ve decided this thing that she’s gonna push him? Like she, she’s like, I know you better than you know yourself baby. 

Like I, I get what you’re, I get what you’re saying, but like, this is not what we, this is not what we talked about. And, 

Gideon Rappaport

And she’s, and she’s marshaling a whole set of arguments that aren’t the identical argument to each other. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Right. 

Gideon Rappaport

To, To re persuade him. In other words, each thing she says is another counter argument to his argument for why they shouldn’t proceed. That his argument for why they shouldn’t proceed is, I’m being honored now. That’s what I want. I want to be, I want that glory. And she’s going, yeah, but you have more as a king. So what? Wait, why are you stopping? Let’s, here are the reasons not to. And she is digging at him, right? She’s un she is attacking him in his male ego. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah. Let’s look at that. Mark. Will, will you read? We will proceed no further. And then, and then Megan, will you read the, the three questions that she asks, 

Mark Lawson

We will proceed no further in this business. He has honored me of late and I have bought golden opinions of all sorts of people, which would be worn now in their newest gloss, not cast aside so soon. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Was the hope drunk wearing you dressed yourself? Has it slept since and wakes it now to look so green and pale at what it did? So freely. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah. That’s interesting. So that’s what you’re talking about Gideon. 

Gideon Rappaport

Exactly. Right. 

Nick Cagle

It’s a response directly to what he says. 

Gideon Rappaport

And I think that he is telling her, telling this because he knows that’s not the end of the discussion. He doesn’t say we will proceed no further in this business. We’re not talking about it anymore. He’s given her reasons and he expects her to come back with counter arguments. 

Mark Lawson

Is he So he is fishing, he’s like, I 

Gideon Rappaport

Don’t think he’s, I don’t think he, I don’t 

Mark Lawson

Really like this outfit that I’m wearing. 

Gideon Rappaport

I don’t think he knows he’s fishing. I don’t think he knows he’s fishing, but he knows his wife, 

Nick Cagle

Which gives us a clue into their relationship. Right? Yeah. It tells us how they communicate with each other a little bit. You know, he, he, he probably does check in with her. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Definitely. 

Gideon Rappaport

That’s why he wrote that Letter. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I was gonna say you, that that’s why, that’s why she gets the letter she gets. 

Gideon Rappaport

Right. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I think too, like he also, what’s interesting about this that I hadn’t thought about before with him is that he doesn’t say we’re never gonna do it. 

Mark Lawson

He says, now is not the time 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I got. You know, I’m saying now, you know, like it, 

Gideon Rappaport

And she, and a part of her answer, part of her answer is, what do you mean it’s perfect timing right now? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Exactly. Like that’s part of it is that like, we didn’t even have to make this happen. It’s happening. 

Gideon Rappaport

Right. Yeah. And That’s, 

Nick Cagle

let’s go on and read the, the second part of, of Lady Macbeth’s response from, from, from this time such I account thy love 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

From this time such I account thy love art. Thou feared to be the same in thy own act and valor as thou art in desire would thou have that which thou esteems the ornament of life and live a coward in thy own esteem Letting I dare not wait upon I would like the poor cat in the adage. 

Mark Lawson

Interesting. 

Nick Cagle

Let’s look, let’s just look at that section for a second. 

Gideon Rappaport

So The first thing I would say is it’s all questions. 

Nick Cagle

It is. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Hmm. 

Gideon Rappaport

A wife. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah. She doesn’t like tell him shit. 

Gideon Rappaport

Right, Exactly. 

Nick Cagle

She 

Gideon Rappaport

can’t tell him what to do. He can say, we will proceed no further and she’s gotta absorb that. And her answer is, is a wife’s answer. Oh really? Do you think this is that? Why do you blah, blah, blah. Question, question, question. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah. I think one of the things that I’m, I I’m want wanting to play with with her is, I think so often I see her as like, she’s like at a hundred from the beginning and I wanna see her like growing into the role in a way. And I feel like there’s part, it’s like, it’s so easy to fall into like super sarcastic and, and and, and lose the like, but this is what you want like to, to like, instead of just berating him to, to sort of like, how can I get him where he wants to be as opposed to me just like shaming him into it. 

Mark Lawson

Hmm. 

Nick Cagle

Right. Yeah. I’m really enjoying the stability that you’re bringing to it, Megan. There’s a stillness that that makes her trustworthy and to the audience, at least to me, when I watch you do it, it, it feels like somebody that I could trust, which is, which is, you know, I like that is powerful for, for what’s happening here. Okay. I need a little help here. Le what is w what wou have that which thou esteems The ornament of life. 

Gideon Rappaport

That’s the the crown. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah, it’s the king of 

Nick Cagle

King. Oh, okay. The crown. Okay. The ornament of life. And live a coward in th own esteem. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

So you’re not gonna do it so you’re gonna live your whole life knowing I was too cowardly to do the thing. Hmm. 

Nick Cagle

I see. 

Gideon Rappaport

Even Though I value the crown as the highest thing in life. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Right. And so that letting, that I dare not being, being more important than I want it. 

Gideon Rappaport

Right. And the way that, do you know 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

The cat who the cat in the adage is? 

Gideon Rappaport

Yes. The cat in the adage wanted to eat fish but he didn’t wanna get his feet wet. That’s right. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

That’s 

Nick Cagle

Totally okay. That’s totally, yeah. Thank you. I didn’t know what that was. Fantastic. 

Ah, beautiful, beautiful. Let, let’s, let’s keep going. And then so he stops her here. Go ahead and and read on through Lady M’s. Next speech. If you wouldn’t mind, Breathe. 

Mark Lawson

Peace. I dare do all that. May I dare do all and may become a man who dares do more is none 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

What beast was then that made you break this enterprise to me. When you durst do it, then you were a man and to be more than what you were, you would be so much more. The man nor time nor place did then adhere. And yet you would make both. They have made themselves and that their fitness now does unmake. You I have given suck and know how tender is to love the babe that milks me. I would, while it was smiling in my face, have plucked my nipple from its boneless gums and dashed the brains out had I so sworn as you have done to this, If we should 

Nick Cagle

Fail. That’s an interesting tactic that she decides to use there. 

Mark Lawson

Hmm. 

Nick Cagle

And she makes, she makes that choice after she makes a choice to, to propel after. Does Unmake you right, Megan? I heard you just do, I heard you just make that, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah. It’s interesting ’cause it’s a funny, it’s, it’s one of those like midline shifts where 

Nick Cagle

Yeah. If 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

it were contemporary, we put a big old pause in and like come up with something. But because it’s Shakespeare’s gonna keep moving that it’s, I think Why 

Nick Cagle

Do you think she makes that change right there? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I think because they’re talking about men and women or they’re, and they’re talking about, or they’re talking about men and less men, you know, less manly men. And then she’s like, I’m not even a man. 

Nick Cagle

Oh, okay. And I would do this and it, and 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I think she takes like the most like, female thing that you could possibly do, which now she’s abandoned because she’s called upon the forces of darkness. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

And she’s like, okay, I’m not even a woman anymore. Like, I know. And I loved my children and I think that’s one of the things that’s important about it is she’s like, no, I loved that baby. I love this thing and I will destroy it if I had sworn it the way you swore to be king. 

Gideon Rappaport

And she, she’s fulfilling her request to be unsexed in the earlier scene. 

Nick Cagle

Yes. So 

Gideon Rappaport

this is, she, she is enacting the proof that the spirits are in spiriting her to do exactly that. I have a question about that. 

Mark Lawson

Yeah. You know, I, I’ve been trying to uncover like the, the child that they had or that she had and where that falls in their relationship and how that, I mean, having known a few people that have that’ve like, that have lost a child young, and how that if they stay together, it creates, either it creates a dynamic where there’s constant codependent like check-in with each other, or it creates, you know, a fracture that they’re trying to meet each other over this abyss, you know? And I don’t know, I guess I just wanted to dive in to hear what your thoughts Gideon and Megan are are on, on that. 

And when, how long ago was this? 

Gideon Rappaport

You know, and I 

Mark Lawson

probably missed this in my read, but there’s, I’ve always been curious about that. There’s, 

Gideon Rappaport

There’s a famous essay called How Many Children Had Lady Macbeth. The answer is that Shakespeare doesn’t tell us, nor does he make any issue of it except where that line comes, I have given suck later in the play, we are going to hear Duncan’s, I mean, McDuff say he has no children, right? So he doesn’t know what it’s like for your children to be destroyed or, so it seems like a contradiction, but the lines are meant to, to work where they come. So what I’m saying to you is you can develop a whole psychological theory if you want to, and there’s nothing to stop you from using any interpretation. 

But there’s nothing in the play that’s specifically about what you were saying. We just, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I think that is so well said. 

Gideon Rappaport

It’s not given us, 

Nick Cagle

I can’t say that historically. And I, I don’t know. Sha Shakespeare got a lot of these stories. What, what’s it called? Gideon, the, the Hill Stead Chronicles or 

Gideon Rappaport

Ship. Ship, yeah. 

Nick Cagle

Holland. Yeah. There is, there is talk of the history of these people in there. And she was married before. Apparently. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

That’s what 

Mark Lawson

I was gonna bring up. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah. 

Nick Cagle

So I I I, she may have had children with, and you know, with her last husband. Right. 

Gideon Rappaport

So, and 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I’ve seen a lot of productions where they have like a dead baby at the beginning. Like you can choose 

Nick Cagle

Oh yeah. They have like a 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

funeral for the, you know, like, I think you can interesting. As Gideon so beautifully said, you can decide has she had children with him or have they had a child they lost. 

Nick Cagle

And then 

Gideon Rappaport

I think it gives you different things. I think you just have to be careful of going too far off the track that Shakespeare gives you in order to develop those other ideas. 

Nick Cagle

Sure. 

Gideon Rappaport

’cause it, it can be useful for the actors to think that way. It can be distracting for the audience to have a subplot that doesn’t exist. Sure. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Well said. 

Mark Lawson

Yeah. It’s more, I think for me as an actor, it just gives me a different starting point, a different 

Gideon Rappaport

feeling. Yeah. 

Mark Lawson

I think, mark, I’ve got three kids, so I immediately, it resonates for me in a different way if it was actually somebody else’s kid than if it was mine. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

This is actually the first time I’ve thought about it in terms of like a choice as an actor of I know this thing that you don’t know. 

Mark Lawson

Like, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

you don’t know what it’s like to have a child. I know what it’s like to have a child. 

Interesting. Might be, and there’s nothing more sacred than that really. 

Mark Lawson

Right. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Like in 

Mark Lawson

human life, there’s nothing more sacred than the connection between a mother and her child. And I 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

think that’s more than anything the point. Yeah. 

Mark Lawson

That like, it doesn’t, it 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

doesn’t actually, I was getting say it doesn’t actually matter. Do they have kids running? You know, did they have a child that’s, you know, or did she have a child? Or 

Gideon Rappaport

The, the point is that the metaphor is an exact mirror image of killing the father figure of Duncan. And it’s interesting that when it comes down to it, she can’t do it. Right. 

Nick Cagle

Ah, because he 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Looks like her dad also. He looked 

Nick Cagle

like Father. So Peggy means then, which is what spurs all of this is his line, dare bald may become a man who dares do more, is none. What do you think, mark? What do you think he’s saying right there? 

Mark Lawson

Okay, so I’m gonna get a little nerdy. I did a little bit of reading about Shakespeare’s under like, personal philosophy and studying. And, and for me, if I relate, I’ve already called Duncan Marcus Aurelius. If I’ve, if I’m looking at this from a stoic perspective, the idea that the ambition, the thing to want is the thing that’s gonna make you miserable in life. And, you know, if he is a studied man, Macbeth, then he has an, he has an expect, he has a, an idea of what honor is, what the virtues are, the four virtues, you know, temperance, justice, wisdom and courage. And when you start to shoot beyond that, that’s when you compromise your, your, you know, your, your own overall goodness. 

And I think that’s one of the things that he’s couching it with here. I also think he’s basically, he’s also from, from just a more basic man level going, did you not see me on the fucking battlefield with the big sword and chopping people in half? Don’t tell me I’m not a man. You know, I think there’s no, men 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

don’t commit mortal crime. 

Mark Lawson

That’s right. So 

Gideon Rappaport

I I I just wanna, I love your nerdiness. It’s fabulous. It warms the cockles of my heart. 

So I’ll just add that he is, he, he’s not, he is not recognizing that the very alternative he imagined at the beginning, if we could, if we could achieve success here, we jump the life to come. He is blinding himself to the unity between what goes on here and what is the life to come. That there is no way he can be happy by doing what he’s doing. And the whole play demonstrates it. It just plunges him deeper, deeper into, into damnation and misery. 

So the, the idea that you can be happy doing evil in this life, forgetting the world to come is itself an illusion. It’s not just that you’re ignoring ultimate judgment. You’re, you’re ignoring the judgment that we have here, which he names in the earlier speech, but turns against it. So it’s, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a profound self delusion that she is feeding 

Mark Lawson

And that he’s even aware of. 

Gideon Rappaport

Right. 

Mark Lawson

And similar nick to the to be not to be speech, which I think is rife with his stoic dilemma of what to do. 

Nick Cagle

So this sounds like it’s a philosophy that is important to him. Like him, him saying that is something that is conclusive. And, and, and that’s why she comes in with many powerful questions and tactics to refute that. 

Gideon Rappaport

Because everybody knows it. You don’t have to be a philosopher to know that what they’re plotting does not become a man in the sense of he is not becoming for a man. Everybody knows this killing the king like killing your child. It’s just out of the pale of human civilization. So that’s his argument. And she’s saying, well, but you, you were a man when you were willing to do it. ’cause that showed courage and courage and violence and cruelty are the qualities she wants in him now and not humanity. 

Nick Cagle

And that’s why she says beast. And it’s the juxtaposition between man and beast. 

Gideon Rappaport

Exactly. 

Nick Cagle

Excellent. Thank you for explaining that To me. And she’s not that he’s a beast. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

She’s saying, oh, you must have been a beast then. 

Nick Cagle

Hmm. When you came up with this idea. 

Mark Lawson

Yeah. And then she said, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

no, that’s, that’s not what it is. It’s, it, it’s, that’s when you were a man. 

Mark Lawson

Mm. 

Gideon Rappaport

But daring when you durst so daring Yes. For her, or at least in her argument, defines the manliness of the man 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Valor. 

Gideon Rappaport

And he valor doesn’t distinguish between daring on the battlefield, which you were saying before, mark. 

Mark Lawson

Yep. 

Gideon Rappaport

And daring to kill the king or daring to dash the brains out of your own child. Those are two different kinds of daring because they’re both daring. But one, it’s daring in the context of the orderly universe and the other is daring to go against it. 

Nick Cagle

One of, one of my favorite things is coming up. I I love this next little section if we should fail. 

And then lady has two words that she says, and there are so many different ways. What, what is your, what is your choice? I I think there’s a few different ways that you could, that you could respond to that. I don’t know. What do you, what do you think, what, what’s your choice with, with her next line? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Lemme just add that you have a choice. 

Gideon Rappaport

I just want to add that Nick’s right, you have a choice. And the reason is the question mark might be a question mark or it might be an exclamation point. And people have argued for every, every kind of nuance of this. 

Nick Cagle

I love it so much. It’s one of the fun things I kind of wait for when I see this show because I, I’m like, Ooh, how’s she gonna say it? 

Gideon Rappaport

Right? 

Nick Cagle

What, what, where’s she gonna put the emphasis? 

Gideon Rappaport

So you have a, you, you really have a choice. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I am, I’m a firm. It’s one of the few things that I think I wouldn’t mess around with. I have such a, like an, an instinct towards the, the, the, the, then we fail. But all you have to do is this one thing and we won’t, you know that. I think for me that the whole like, to make it like a question, question like, we fail, like, to me like it, it doesn’t, yeah, it’s weaker. 

Gideon Rappaport

I feel like it’s, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I feel yeah. I feel like it’s a, it’s a punch in the face. It’s like, so what if if we do this thing well then it happens. But if you do the right thing, it won’t happen. And like, for me, I think that’s a really important thing that like, like stop thinking. And it, and it, I think too, when you, when it, when it is an exclamation like that, it’s, it’s stop thinking about it. 

Mark Lawson

Hmm. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Think about screw your car, shit that’s taking place. Get the shit done. And and she’s gonna, and it won’t happen. 

Gideon Rappaport

She’s gonna say that later. She said, if you keep thinking like this, you’re gonna go crazy. That’s not right. I I also wanna point out, make sure that you know what the sticking place refers to. Did you, do you know that it’s, it’s an image from the crossbow. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Oh yes. 

Gideon Rappaport

Right. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

And the crossbow was, 

Gideon Rappaport

was forbidden in various countries by various people, including at certain times the pope because it was such a cruel instrument compared to the longbow, which required more courage in a sense. But so you, you screw your, you screw the, the band or the string to the sticking place, which is the trigger. And then you shoot the, the crossbow arrow and of course the crossbow is built on a cross. So it’s, it’s got this contrast going on. 

Nick Cagle

Ah, so is this, is this one line we have here, guys? Is it from and dash the brains out all the way through to But screw is is that, does, does that scan 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I’ve done 

Nick Cagle

To this, if we should fail, we fail. Yeah. Does that scan as one line? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yes. 

Gideon Rappaport

As you have No, as you have done to this. If we should fail, that’s the, the one line. And then so there could be a breath. 

Nick Cagle

Oh no. Before her response 

Gideon Rappaport

We fail is one is its own line. 

Nick Cagle

Oh, Okay. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I’ve seen in different additions. 

Gideon Rappaport

No, I wouldn’t. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I’m gonna make a fight. Sorry. 

Gideon Rappaport

No, you’re absolutely right. It’s, it’s all one line. It’s all one line. Yeah. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Have done to this. If we should fail, we fail. 

Gideon Rappaport

That’s What, yeah. 

Nick Cagle

Okay. So that, that’s interesting. That’s interesting. I just changed my text here. Let’s read, can we read the through, through that section and down to of our great quell, is that okay? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah. From starting from where? 

Nick Cagle

Let’s just go through. I have given suck. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Okay. I have given suck and know how tender it is to love the babe that milks me. I would, while it was smiling in my face, have plucked my nipple from his boneless gums and sma dashed the brains out. Had I so sworn as you have done to this, 

Mark Lawson

If we should fail, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

We fail. But screw your courage to the sticking place and will not fail when Duncan is asleep. Whereto the rather shall his hard journey soundly invite him. His two Chamberlains will lie with wine and was so convinced that memory, the water of the brain shall be a fume. And the receipt of reason a limbic only when in swine sleep their drenched natures lies in a death. What cannot you and I perform upon the unguarded Duncan, what not put upon his spongy officers who shall bear the guilt of our Great. Well 

Nick Cagle

Thank you very much. Now just for fun, because we’re exploring this and this is what it’s all about. And, and you by no means have to make this, can we go through that section again, but hear what happens if we make we fail a question and just see if it informs the next section in any different way, just for our audience’s sake. Sure. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Let’s 

Nick Cagle

just see what happens. For fun, I have given suck and 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

know how tender it is to love the babe that milks me. I would, while it was smiling in my face, have plucked my nipple from his boneless gums and dashed the brains out. Had I so sworn as you have done to this, If we 

Mark Lawson

should fail, He 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

fail. Fail. But screw your courage to the sticking place and will not fail when Duncan is asleep. Where to the rather shall his days hard journey soundly invite him. His two chamberlains will lie with wine and w so convinced that memory, the water of the brain shall be a fume and the receipt of reason limbic only when in swish sleep their drenched natures lie Other than a death. What cannot you and I perform upon unguarded Duncan, what not put upon his spongy officers who shall bear the guilt of our great quell Bring forth men children only for 

Nick Cagle

Thank you. Thank you. You know. No, I like, I like your, your I think you’re right The first time there, it’s, it was interesting to hear because the but doesn’t work quite as well if it’s a question mark. I feel like 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

that The way I feel, I mean I know that we’ve got the sense of only like, that maybe is heavier if you use it as a question. But for me, I don’t know. I don’t Love 

Nick Cagle

it. Well, yeah, you would have to put the emphasis on both words. It would have to be we fail, you know? Right. Like impossible. You know what I mean? Right. But but then the but doesn’t, like with the way you delivered it the first time, the, you know, we fail, but screw your courage to the sticking place and will not fail. That gives it more, it felt more weight the first time you read it. I, I agree with your choice on that. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah. I think it gives more weight to the this is what you should do. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah, for sure. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

This is what happens. Like not dwelling on the failure. But 

Gideon Rappaport

I, I agree with that. I just want to point out why we’re free here because we can’t always trust the folio. The folio ends the line line 58, 5, 6, 57, 58 and dash the brains. I’ve had iso sworn that’s the line brain. Right? The next line is, as you have done to this, if we should fail and we fail is its own line. So the editors can fudge that because it also works to say and dash the brains out. Had I so sworn as you have done to this, if we should fail, we fail. So I just, I’m just 

Nick Cagle

Interesting Do, 

Gideon Rappaport

I’m doing my due diligence to tell you yes, 

Nick Cagle

You are indeed What 

Gideon Rappaport

portfolio says, but I think you’re free to do it this way. And I think it works much better. 

Mark Lawson

Well I also think it creates My recalling 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Oh, go On. 

Mark Lawson

No, I’m sorry. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

No, I was gonna say, am I recalling correctly that Macbeth has some weird, like the original publishing that there’s some like weirdness with some of the typesetting and language and words and stuff like that, that there was some messiness there? Mm. 

Gideon Rappaport

Not more than usual, but plenty. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Oh, okay. 

Gideon Rappaport

I mean the folio, the folio that that I could give you a whole lecture on all the things in the folio that make it iffy or the corto for that matter. We have to be profoundly grateful to hemingson condole for collecting these best texts they could find. And hiring two great typesetters and three suboptimal ones. And people have studied, they know all five of them. They’re A, B, C, D, and E and they know that A and A is excellent, B is pretty good, C and D are not so good and F is awful. 

So yeah, there’s stuff in everything. In fact, the the whole hee scene, the Hetty lines are, are not Shakespeare. They’re not by Shakespeare. I’m, I’m convinced they’re just interpolations when they took it out to the country and they stole a song from a Middleton play. Anyway. Yes. So you’re right. There’s, there are issues. But 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I feel the same way about the people who make the condensed NFL games. 

Gideon Rappaport

Some of them 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I love about and 

Nick Cagle

I think 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

some of them are terrible. 

Nick Cagle

I just 

Mark Lawson

Wanted to, I just wanted to add Megan, I feel like also performance wise, you had mentioned earlier that you want to give her, you know, you, you want her to build into this propulsive force and I feel like your first choice with the, with the exclamation gives you somewhere else to go versus the sarcasm of the question that the emasculation of the question, you’re more coaching him forward. It’s it’s the locker room before the event versus Yeah, like that the, you know, versus the like. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah, I already said the word. 

Mark Lawson

And and that’s, 

Gideon Rappaport

that’s a good analogy because the coach 

Nick Cagle

The coach, 

Gideon Rappaport

The coach can’t go out on the field and play. She needs him. He, he needs her to convince him, but she needs him to do it because without him becoming king, she’s not gonna become queen. 

So she’s gotta change his mind. Sorry, 

Nick Cagle

I have a dog here too and a dog. Let’s go on. Great job you guys. You’re doing wonderful work. This is really exciting. Oh, 

Mark Lawson

weird. Okay, this bit 

Nick Cagle

Let’s bring forth men. Children only Bring 

Mark Lawson

forth men, children only for the undaunted. Metals should compose no thing but males, I can’t help it. I have to say it that way. It just wants to be said that way. Bring forth men, children only for the undaunted metals should compose nothing but males. Will it not be received when we have marked with blood those sleepy two of his own chamber and use their very daggers that they have done 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Who dares receive it other as we shall make our griefs and clamor roar up upon his death. 

Mark Lawson

I am settled and bend up each corporal agent to this terrible feat away and mock the time with Ferris show. False face must hide what? False heart that No. 

Nick Cagle

Oh, okay. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Are these shared lines too, you think? 

Mark Lawson

Yeah, I think I broke that up too Much 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

like that propulsion to the end. 

Gideon Rappaport

Yes. That they have done it. Who dares receive it. Other is one line upon his death. I am settled and bend up is one that 

Mark Lawson

Yeah. Of our great 

Gideon Rappaport

quell bring forth men children only. That’s one line. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

It’s one of my favorite like shared line scenes. 

Mark Lawson

No, I love that. Yeah. 

Gideon Rappaport

The way they keep each other moving. Yeah. Also, I want to, I just have one note and that is mark line 77 or 78, will it not be received when we have marked with blood the, the two of the chamber and use their daggers that they have done it. Not anybody else. 

Mark Lawson

Yeah, I, yes, I agree. 

Gideon Rappaport

’cause you, you are hitting, they have done it and it’s, I I lose the point of the sentence. 

Mark Lawson

Fair. 

Gideon Rappaport

That’s it. That was my only note that time I feel like it’s 

Mark Lawson

my attempt at basically reiterating the plan back to her so that she can approve the plan before I go do it. 

Gideon Rappaport

Yeah, but that’s That’s fair enough. That’s Fair enough. I’m 

Mark Lawson

not dumb. But can, is this your idea? You know, 

Gideon Rappaport

It’s confirmation. He wants confirmation. 

Mark Lawson

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, okay. Okay. When it’s that direct, I I I get it. Okay. Can we do that again? And 

Gideon Rappaport

also remember the audience doesn’t know the plan so he, he’s going over, ah, we’re only hearing it the first time. 

Nick Cagle

Ah, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Well I think too, he’s building off of her suggestion. She’s like, I’m gonna get them drunk and and sleeping and so then we can do whatever with, with, you know, and then he is like, oh, so if I take their jaggers, then we’ll do the thing. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah. Megan, could you read the plan from when Duncan is asleep for me one more time? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah. A bad page journey for me. When Duncan is asleep, whereto the rather shall his days hard journey soundly invite him, his two chamberlains will I with wide and waffles so convinced that memory, the water of the brain shall be a fume. And the receipt of reason limbic only when in swish sleep their drenched natures lies as in a death. What cannot you and I perform upon the unguarded Duncan, but not put upon his spongy officers who shall bear the guilt of our great quell 

Mark Lawson

Bring forth men children only for thy undaunted metal should compose nothing but males. Will they not be received when we have, will they not be received when we have marked with blood those sleepy two of his own chamber and use their, their very daggers that they have done, that they have done 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Who dares receive it other as we shall make our griefs and clamor roar upon his death? 

Mark Lawson

I 

Nick Cagle

am so, okay. I figured out what I need here. So a a lot of, a lot of my directing is clarifying things that I would, that I would be confused about if I, I was watching the show and there, there’s so much information going here that I need a beat. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Okay. 

Nick Cagle

And I, and I think where it lives Mark is after nothing but males. 

Mark Lawson

Yep. 

Nick Cagle

Do you think maybe it, it feels like, like the next question is an idea that pops in his head. I don’t know if you guys agree with me or not. Could, could I, could I hear you sort of plow through and then, and then take a minute to think of will it 

Mark Lawson

Yes. That 

Nick Cagle

that’s a question that you’re asking her. You know what I mean? 

Gideon Rappaport

And I Think it’s a, they’re stepping forward in the plot. So he suggested and she says yes and she goes a step further. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah. Some kind of change. Some kind of change there Mark. Yeah. Let, let’s hear that. Go ahead and read, read your plan Megan. 

Or let let’s, let’s go from what, what not put upon his spongy officers. 

Spongy officers 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Spongy is one of my 

Nick Cagle

favorites. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

What not put upon his spongy officers who shall bear the guilt of our great que 

Mark Lawson

Bring forth men children only for the undaunted metal should compose nothing but males. Will it not be received when we have marked with blood those sleepy two of his own chamber unused their very daggers that they have dumped Who 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

daress receive it other as we shall make our griefs and clamor roar upon his death. I 

Nick Cagle

understand. Yeah, that’s right. It can be just a short, just a quick beat, but just a breath, you know, for the less than that idea to land. 

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Even shorter than that. Just a, just a just a minute to think of the question. Like An 

Mark Lawson

Olivier one, two count. 

Nick Cagle

Like one Yeah, Sure works. Yeah, it is. But it is a rhythm. It is a song, you know. Oh yeah. So, And 

Gideon Rappaport

the, the the, the end of her part of the song is final for him. I’m settled. 

Mark Lawson

I’m settled, and 

Gideon Rappaport

She, the she, the last stage of her plot is the hypocrisy of pretending to be grief stricken at the death of Duncan. We’re gonna climb her about his death. And that that image ties up the knot for him. I’m settled and then he repeats the idea, mock the time with pH’s show false face, false heart. Right. We’re we’re both in agreement in going into this performance, this hip hypocritical performance. Well, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

and ostensibly we’re going back into the dinner Yes. Having decided all of this. And so we really have to false face it up. 

Gideon Rappaport

Yeah, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I do. I oh, I do have a question, Gideon, with the, will it not be received? ’cause I think I’ll, so often when we see stuff like that we’re like, oh, he’s coming up with this idea, but he’s actually really kind of just taking what she said. ’cause she says, we’re gonna put the guilt on them. And he’s like, oh, people will see that we’re putting the guilt on. Like, like he’s confirming. Is there a, like the, will it not be received? Is there a in the will? It, is it, is it any different than the way we would use it? ’cause we contemporary read it as, oh, I’m coming up with an idea, but it’s not really that is It? 

Gideon Rappaport

No. Won’t it be we, we would say, won’t it? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah. Okay. 

Gideon Rappaport

Won’t it be received like that? I’m hoping it’ll, and she says, yeah, for sure it will. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Right. 

Gideon Rappaport

Because we’re gonna make it like that because we’re gonna, you know, we’re gonna make our griefs and clamor roar upon his death. So Yeah, you’re right. It’s not, it’s not an absolute question. It’s like ahy hypothetical looking for agreement. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Right? 

Mark Lawson

Yeah. I think that’s what I was trying to get to in earlier reads was not just confirmation, but like, do you really think this is gonna work? You know, more, more of a 

Gideon Rappaport

Yeah. Just con just confirm that I’m on the right track here. 

Mark Lawson

Yeah. Well, and then we’re not gonna get burned at the stake or have our heads lopped off. 

Nick Cagle

I mean it could almost be is it almost a cell, is it a small, like a celebration of her brilliant idea then sort of is it a, is it a positive? 

Mark Lawson

That could be 

Nick Cagle

Thing. Like 

Mark Lawson

You’ve just touched on that. There’s always the question 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

too that is the bring forth men children only in admiration or is it In 

Nick Cagle

Yeah. The whole thing’s almost. 

Gideon Rappaport

Oh, absolutely admiration. I think so. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah. It, it feels like, like if I was to stage this, like it would be, they would be getting close to each other. They would be, it would be, it’s almost like they’re, they’re turning each other on with this now. 

Mark Lawson

Yeah. 

Nick Cagle

Like, 

Gideon Rappaport

Which is funny because the end of the scene is false face must hide with the false heart does know. So here’s this consummation in their bodies as you imagine it, of their agreement to be false. 

Mark Lawson

Hmm. 

Gideon Rappaport

It’s just dynamite theater. 

Nick Cagle

It really is. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Marriage and Shakespeare. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah. He was on fire. 

Mark Lawson

It’s funny, the, these are the very things that in the last week or so as I’ve been looking at this, that I realized, you know, my your kind of your neutral starting point is as an actor, I have a hard time getting over some of my own, you know, morality and virtue as I’m looking at this and find and mining some of those things that are, that are there in the text that I just, my, my, you know, need to be a good boy automatically wants to like, to turn it, it, it wants to, it wants to justify it a different way. Do not, 

Gideon Rappaport

do not ever let anyone tell you that art doesn’t have power. Right. And it can be an extremely scary experience to perform these roles for people in their personal lives. Hmm. 

Mark Lawson

It’s, it’s a 

Gideon Rappaport

terrifying window on the abyss that’s possible to human beings. And if you succeed in the performance, it means you have looked into that abyss. 

Mark Lawson

Hmm. 

Gideon Rappaport

And you get, you get what it means. And it can be terrifying if you don’t have roots. You know, if you don’t have roots in your good boy morality and in the, the goodness of the creation of the world, it can be extremely terrible. And I remember when I started teaching, having to explain to people that Macbeth’s last speeches about tomorrow and tomorrow in his despair were not Shakespeare’s picture of the true nature of the world. They were the picture of a man who has lived his life as Macbeth has. But, but they are so compelling and powerful that when you are in despair, they seem to voice what you’re feeling. 

So Yes. Be, be rooted. 

Mark Lawson

I I think what you just said really encapsulated for me what drew me to Shakespeare in the first place as a, as a like a junior high student. 

Gideon Rappaport

Yeah. And 

Mark Lawson

what led me to go to Lambda to study classical theater because the, those are the questions beyond like the three page film and TV audition that somebody gets. Those are the things that I was just exploring, you know, about myself as a young man. And I think that’s what rooted me to, to all of this. And it’s, it is really just interesting to hear you put it that way. 

Gideon Rappaport

That’s absolutely wonderful. I, I just, when I went to graduate school, I decided to study Shakespeare because I said he’s gonna wear me out before I wear him out. 

Mark Lawson

And I would 

Gideon Rappaport

not have said that about movie scripts or TV scripts that you’ve seen for the last 50 years. They’re not interested in those deep questions. Whether they’re capable of it is another question, but you are absolutely right and it’s why classical theater is still so powerful because it’s universal. 

Hmm. 

Nick Cagle

Like can you read 

Gideon Rappaport

Again the conversation? But I’m glad that, I’m glad you were called in that way because it’s a true calling. 

Mark Lawson

Well, I’m getting called again at 45, which is interesting. So 

Nick Cagle

I don’t think it ends, you know, and I think it just continues to get more and more interesting and the more that’s the, the deeper you dive, the more there is, it’s kind of an infinite abyss of exploration with these things. For instance, we haven’t even got to the second scene yet. 

Mark Lawson

Yeah. 

Nick Cagle

And we’re almost done with our session. I always worry that we’re not gonna have enough to talk about with these things and boy, am I wrong? 

Gideon Rappaport

Not when you got me along. 

Nick Cagle

Can we read, can we go from bring forth men children only to the end one more time just to hear that 

Mark Lawson

Bring forth men children only for the undaunted metal should compose nothing but males. Will it not be received when we have marked with blood those sleepy two of his own chamber and use their very daggers that they have dumped 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Who dares receive another as we shall make our griefs and clamor roar upon his death. 

Mark Lawson

I am settled and bend up every corporal agent to this terrible feat away and mock the time with Ferris Cho false face must hide with false heart death. No, 

Nick Cagle

It’s really, it’s, it’s really interesting how she says, and we, she’s almost grinning. I feel I like your choice there, Megan, as as you said, and we shall make our griefs and clamor roar upon his death like we’re gonna act, you know, like, oh man, 

Gideon Rappaport

I I particularly noticed that he says terrible feet, like he knows what they’re doing is terrible. 

Mark Lawson

Mm. It 

Nick Cagle

it’s one, but they, they say all this with this sort of, this cheekiness, there’s like a cheeky undertone going on here that’s terrifying. Really. 

Gideon Rappaport

Well It’s a, it’s a, it’s an overlay of self ignorance upon their knowledge. Like he knows it’s terrible, but he’s choosing freely to do it anyway. And that’s okay with him. And the fact that he’s decided that’s okay with him is itself terrible. So Shakespeare is having him tell us that he’s doing something terrible. 

Nick Cagle

Both face must hide what the false heart death know. 

Gideon Rappaport

Yep. 

Nick Cagle

It’s kind of a comment on acting as well from Shakespeare. Isn’t it 

Gideon Rappaport

Always? Well, I would say in Shakespeare it’s false face must hide what the true heart death know. 

Mark Lawson

Hmm. Oh yeah, yeah. 

Gideon Rappaport

When You’re doing Shakespeare, you’re revealing truth if you’re doing it right. Hmm. 

Nick Cagle

Well, should we, I know. We’ll we should read the whole thing and then I’m sure we’re gonna end up just talking about it all over again. 

Let, let’s, let’s go through and let’s, let’s try to implement this and let’s play with that sense of urgency. 

It almost works in this pattern. It’s like a zoom call with these two, you know, it’s like they’re, they’re planning this over like it we could, we could totally make it like this. I would love to see you guys do this by the way. Okay. Yeah. Let’s, let’s read it through all the way 

Mark Lawson

If it were done when ti is done and we’re well it were done quickly, if the assassination could tremble up the consequence and catch with his ce success, that, but this blow might be the be all in the end all here. But here upon this bank and shoal of time, we jumped the life to come. But in these cases, we still have judgment here that we but teach bloody instructions, which being taught return to plague the inventor. This even handed justice commends the ingredients of our poison chalice to our own lips. He’s here in double trust. First as I am his kinsman and his subject strong both against the deed then as his host, who should against his murderer shut the door. 

Not bear the knife myself. Besides this Duncan have borne his faculty so me have been so clear in his great office that his virtues will plead like angels trumpet tongue against the deep damnation of his taking off and pity like a naked newborn babe striding the blast or heaven’s cher forced upon the sightless couriers of the air shall blow the horrid deed in every eye that tears shall drown the wind. I have no spur to prick the sides of my intent, but only vaulting ambition which or leaves itself and falls on the other hell no. What news 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

He has almost sucked. Why have you left the chamber? Have he asked for me? No, you not. He has, We 

Mark Lawson

will proceed no further in this business. He has honored me of late and I have bought golden opinions of all sorts of people, which would be worn now in their newest gloss. Not cast aside so soon Was the hope 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

drunk wherein you dressed yourself have it slept since and wakes it now to look so green and pale at what it did so freely from this time such I account thy love art. Thou a feared to be the same in th own act and valor as thou art in desire, which thou have that which thou esteem the ornament of life and live a coward in th own esteem letting I dare not wait upon I would like the cat in the adage 

Mark Lawson

Or the pretty peace. I dare Aldo may become a man who dares do more as none. What beast was it then that made you break this enterprise to me? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

When you dur do it, then you were a man and to be more than what you were, you would be so much more. The man nor time nor place did then adhere. And yet you would make both. They have made themselves and that their fitness now and that their fitness now does unmake. You I have given suck and know how tender is to love the babe that milks me. I would while it was smiling in my face, have plucked my nipples from his boneless gums and dashed the brains out. Had I so sworn as you have done to this, We 

Mark Lawson

should fail. We fail. But screw your courage to the sticking place and will not fail when 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Duncan is asleep. Where to the rather shall his hard day’s journey soundly invite him. His two chamberlains will lie with wine and waffle. So convinced that memory, the water of the brain shall be a fme. And the receipt of reason a limbic only when in swish sleep their drenched natures lies as in a death. What cannot you and I perform upon the unguarded Duncan, what not put upon his spongy officers who shall bear the guilt of our great well Bring forth men, children only for the 

Mark Lawson

undaunted metal should compose nothing but males. Will they not be received when we have marked with blood those sleepy two of his own chamber and use their very daggers that they have done Who daress receive it other as we shall make our griefs and clamor roar upon his death. I am settled and bend up every corporal agent to this terrible fe away and mock the time with Ferris Cho. False face must hide what the false heart, death know. 

Nick Cagle

Very good. Very, very good. 

Gideon Rappaport

Excellent. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah, you go, go first, Gideon. 

Gideon Rappaport

Okay, I only had one correction and that was line 33 Mark. You keep saying of all sorts of people and it’s from all sorts of people. 

Mark Lawson

Yep. Yeah, 

Gideon Rappaport

That’s it. I I think I had one more. Wait one second. 

Mark Lawson

I got so Wrapped up in what Megan was doing that I missed the shared line on have done to this if we should fail. 

Gideon Rappaport

Yeah, I 

Mark Lawson

I noticed that, 

Gideon Rappaport

but that’s okay. I think I’m still not getting enough of the, the contrast between CE success be all and end all here. 

And the contrast is, and, and this bank, in show of time we jump the life to come and then in these cases we still have judgment, ah, not just there, but here that we teach bloody instructions, et cetera. So I think the, I think there’s a big transition before that, but okay, in line seven and I, I just didn’t hear that, but everything else was really good. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah, you guys, this, this is really, really getting fantastic. Alrighty. Okay. We must take this on the road. We, we have no choice. 

Gideon Rappaport

It’s so scary to do it that quietly and close up in Zoom. 

Nick Cagle

That’s what I love. The intimacy of this is so awesome. Okay, I got a couple of notes. Mark. I’d love to see a little more urgency at the very top from you. 

It, the, the let’s enhance the tennis match that’s going on in his brain. Okay. You know, the, this, he is this back and forth. 

It, it seems, it, it reads like it’s almost driving him mad, you know, it, it reads like this is such a hard decision for him to make. And, and I feel like if you just beef up the energy in the first couple of lines and the speed, and technically it’ll, it’ll assist you with that. 

Gideon Rappaport

I I would just add antithesis to that. Yes. 

Mark Lawson

Keep 

Gideon Rappaport

up the energy and the antithesis and that’ll do the job. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah. He, he, he’s going back and forth, you know, like, like, but, but in these cases we still have judgment here. You know, it’s, it’s this, this is happening and then, oh shoot, put this and then, oh shoot, you know, I need, I need to see that wrestle between the, the antithesis, you know, a a little bit stronger if you, if you could, when you go through this the next time, find each of those arguments and, and, you know, I, I would overplay it at, at first. Okay. You know, and then, and then pare it down a little bit. 

Gideon Rappaport

He’s, I just add to that, that he’s a thing, therefore he’s been to school and it shakespeare’s time that meant learning the trivium, which was grammar, logic and rhetoric. So he knew how to argue, he knew what an argument was and a counter argument. And that’s, that’s how he’s, that’s how Shakespeare’s characters often try to work things out. They, they like to be or not to be, as you said before, he’s trying to work out, here’s the pro, here’s the con what’s my conclusion? 

Nick Cagle

It feels similar to the to be or not to be speech. In fact, go back, look not to be. And then read the two of these together and, and you’ll, you’ll find the same wrestling match there or similar wrestling match that’s happening between them. 

Let, let’s just go ahead and read through it one, one time, mark. And, and we’ll, we’ll, we’ll try to just knock, we got a little time left. I think we’re obviously gonna just focus on this scene today and then we’ll do the next scene next week. Yeah. Let’s just go ahead and read through it and then, and then we’ll, we’ll find those, those arguments real fast. 

Mark Lawson

Okay. If it were done when tis done, then we, well it were done quickly. If the assassination could tram up the consequence and catch with his ee success, that, but this blow might be the be all and the end all here. Okay. 

Nick Cagle

That’s one. And then that here, 

Mark Lawson

But here, but here upon this bank and shoal of time, we jumped the life to come. 

Gideon Rappaport

That’s, 

Nick Cagle

That’s another, that’s what, 

Gideon Rappaport

that’s the first arc. Now we have the contrast. 

Mark Lawson

Okay. Oh, so you got it. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Is the but here more like emphasis than it is like another, like the but there is not functioning so much as like a the way we use, but, or is it? 

Gideon Rappaport

No, it is, it 

Nick Cagle

Is. I Think 

Mark Lawson

here meaning 

Gideon Rappaport

The fir Oh, you mean the but here or 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Mark Lawson

It’s like 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

the the end all here, but here, yeah, even 

Gideon Rappaport

Only 

Nick Cagle

here is the important word in there. Yeah. 

Gideon Rappaport

Yeah. It means Even only here, it doesn’t mean however, it just means even only here, he’s reinforcing this bank in show of time here the be all and the end all here. Right. And then, and then 

Nick Cagle

I would, I would circle the word Second. What 

Gideon Rappaport

is then change? I, 

Nick Cagle

I would circle the word judgment and teach. 

Yeah. 

Mark Lawson

Instructions teach bloody instructions that we’re being taught return to plague the inventor. 

Gideon Rappaport

In other words, the world works. The world works in the following way. You do something. What, what basically what he’s saying, what goes around comes around. Yes. 

Mark Lawson

Yes. I, as I’m reading it, I’m also feeling though, like he’s talking about the external world that his action will, will have a big consequence in, but also his own personal, you know, his soul with, but here on this bank and soul 

Nick Cagle

And what, what I’m, what I’m asking you to play with is to really help the audience show us the difference between, between those two, those things. You know what, okay. And, and just a little bit more. Yeah. You know, what, you know what to do. Just technically find how to, you know, explain to us when he’s, you know, which argument he’s in, at what time, you know what I mean? So it, and it really, Shakespeare does a lot of the work with the full stops, you know what I mean? Right. You really can just take, take a quick beat after the, you know, make an adjustment with the sound and pacing between each little section. 

Gideon Rappaport

And I would say that the first sentence ending on quickly is the introduction and the second sentence is the development of that idea. And the third sentence is the contrast and the fourth sentence is the development of that. 

Nick Cagle

Yes, yes. 

Mark Lawson

Great. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah. And you’re doing, you’re doing a, a beautiful read with those. I think that maybe if you, like I say, if you just overdo it when you’re rehearsing it one or two times Yeah. Then it, it’ll land right in the middle. 

Mark Lawson

Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Nick Cagle

Where it’ll help us. Sometimes we need a little bit extra explanation 

Mark Lawson

that Highlighter on it a little bit. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Just color it a little bit more, you know, and give us, give give us those upward inflections that lead to the build. You know what I mean? If you could concentrate on, on each of those sections, topping the one before, go ahead and start from the top and just read it through us. 

Mark Lawson

Okay. If it were done when ti is done, then we’re, well it were done quickly. If the assassination could t trammel up the consequence and catch with his or c success that, but this blow might be the be all and the end all here, but here, nope. I’m not feeling I’m gonna need to work these a little bit. 

Nick Cagle

Absolutely. It’s, it’s, it’s hard to change the rhythm, you know what I mean? Sometimes you get in a rhythm and then you have to change it up and I understand. But right there, that was already really clear. You know what mean? 

Mark Lawson

It was Much, it was much clear. It felt like it felt a little vaudeville, but okay. 

Nick Cagle

No, because it feels like too much at first. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And then it’ll become natural as you, as you play with it, you go from, but here upon this bank of actual of time for me, mark. 

Mark Lawson

Yep. Here upon this bank and shoal of time, we jumped the life to come. But in these cases, we still have judgment here that we, but teach bloody instructions, which being taught return to plague the inventor. Great. 

Nick Cagle

This 

Mark Lawson

even hand to justice. What’s that? 

Nick Cagle

No, I said that’s perfect. 

Mark Lawson

Great. Okay. 

Nick Cagle

It was very clear right there. 

Mark Lawson

Oh good. This even-handed justice commends the ingredients of our poison chalice to our own lips. He’s here in double trust. First as I am his kinsman and his subject strong both against the deed. Then as his host, who should against his murderer, shut the door, not bear the knife myself. 

Nick Cagle

That’s great. You could stop right there. Fantastic. That, that’s exactly what I was looking for, man, it’s so, so clear. It’s that, you know, I get, get a real sense of that tennis match that’s going on in his head, that back and forth. Yeah. Awesome. You got it. You got it. Oh, Megan, what, what, what’s a limbrick? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

A dream? 

Nick Cagle

A dream A limbic, right? 

Gideon Rappaport

No, no. 

Nick Cagle

Oh, what is it? 

Gideon Rappaport

It’s, it’s from alchemy. Let me read you this note because 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Oh, that’s okay. That was that 

Gideon Rappaport

one. It’s complicated. The old anatomist divided the brain into three ventricles in the hindmost of which namely the cerebellum, they placed the memory, memory, the water of the cerebellum warns the reason against attack. And where converted by intoxication into a few are a smoke. It fills the brain, the receptacle of reason, which thus becomes like an A limbic or limbic or a cap or a of a still the top of a still. So what’s happening is the fumes from the drink are invading the brain and preventing the reason from using memory to engage in correct judgment. In other words, they’re gonna be befuddled and and knocked out and they won’t be able to reason. 

Nick Cagle

Can we add that? Oh my, did any Elizabethan know what that meant in the audience? 

Gideon Rappaport

Yes, but not all of them did. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah. Megan, can we find that line from you? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah, I got it. 

Nick Cagle

What do you know what line number that is? Anybody? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I have 75, but I just wrote in from the, from the folder, but it’s around there. It’s like her second to last speech after with I will with I will I with was wine and was so convinced 

Nick Cagle

Oh, before the 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Ungar Duncan. 

Gideon Rappaport

It’s my line 67. 

Nick Cagle

I see it. 

Gideon Rappaport

Okay. 8 68. 

Nick Cagle

Yeah. Let, what, can you read that a little for me? Just ’cause I was so, I was so confused on what is going on right there. ’cause I didn’t know what that word meant. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Right. His two chamberlains with I will i with wine and was so convinced that memory, the wa that memory, the water of the brain shall be a fume and the receipt of reason a limbic only. 

Gideon Rappaport

So the thing that, oh, the things that receive reason will be nothing but filled with this, this fume memory itself will dissolve into a fume and therefore reason will not be able to reason. 

Nick Cagle

Oh, thank you. That’s so, that’s so much clearer. I see. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

It is, 

Nick Cagle

yeah. I mean it was, it was in a delivery, I just didn’t know what the lines meant, so No, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

I had misremembered it from many years ago, so that was very helpful. 

Gideon Rappaport

And it, yeah, and I, there is not one person in the audience except 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Right. 

Gideon Rappaport

Professional dramaturgs and professors of 

Nick Cagle

Shakespeare. Thanks Will. 

Gideon Rappaport

But if you mean what it means, right, you’ll get the point. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

That’s right, That’s right. If you would is that always say, you know, if you know a hundred percent of what you’re saying, they’ll get 85, 

Gideon Rappaport

Which is plenty. 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Yeah, exactly. 

Nick Cagle

One, one thing that I was really noticing and enjoying, and I would like you guys to play it more is there’s this thing where he, he tends to, he makes commands of her a few times in this and they seem quite strong and she, every time he does, she comes in with a brilliant tactic to refu it and it, it’s a little bit of a sword fight. And she has this wicked Perry that I would like you guys to continue to explore because you’re already doing it and it’s really, you know, he, he says, well, we’re gonna do this. And she’s, she’s like, oh, you know, and but she, To Manipulate, I don’t know if manipulates the right word, even way she helps him, she helps him find his way. 

And I mean, how would you word that Megan not manipulate, but no, I Think 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

it, I mean it is a kind of manipulation, but it’s a, it’s like a reminder of what he ultimately really wants. Like she’s always bringing him back to his original intention when he yes. When he, when he broke that enterprise to me, like, Hugh brought this to me and we’ve decided this thing, so we’re gotta keep pulling you back, like Yeah. 

Gideon Rappaport

And pull, pulling him back from any possible choice to be virtuous and not do it 

Mark Lawson

Right. 

Nick Cagle

Amazing. Okay, we got five minutes left. Let’s do it one more time and try to implement as many of these notes as we can and then we’ll continue to, 

Mark Lawson

If it were done, when is done, then we’re, well it were done quickly. If the assassination could tram up the consequence and catch with his success, that, but this blow might be the be all and the end all here. 

But here upon this bank and shoal of time, we jumped the life to come. But in these cases, we still have judgment here that we but teach bloody instructions, which being taught return to plague the inventor, this even handed justice commends the ingredients of our poison chalice to our own lips. He’s here and double trust first as I’m Ms. Kinsman and his subject strong both against the deed. Then as his host, who should against his murderer shut the door. Not bear the knife myself. Besides this Duncan hath borne his faculty. So Meek hath been so clear in his great office that his virtues will plead like angels trumpet tongue against the deep damn nation of his taking off and pity like a naked newborn babe striding the blast or heaven’s turban hors upon the sightless couriers of the air shall blow the horrid deed in every eye that tears shall drown the wind. 

I have no spur to prick the sides of my intent, but only vaulting ambition which or leaps itself and falls on the other. 

Oh, now what news? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

He has almost sucked. Why have you left the chamber? 

Mark Lawson

Have he asked for me? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

No, you not. He has, 

Mark Lawson

We will proceed no further in this business. He has honored me of late and I have bought golden opinions from all sorts of people, which would be worn now when their newest gloss not cast aside so soon. What’s the hope? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Drunk wherein you dressed yourself Has it slept since and wakes it now to look so green and pale on what it did so freely from this time such I account thy love art. Thou a feared to be the same in nine own act and Fowler as thou art in desire. W thou have that which thou esteems the ornament of life and live a coward in thine own esteem. Letting I dare not wait upon I would like the poor cat in the adage Peace, 

Mark Lawson

I dare do all that may become a man who dares do more is none 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

What beast was then that made you break this enterprise to me. When you durst do it, then you were a man and to be more than what you were, you would be so much more. The man nor time nor place did then adhere. And yet you would make both. That they have made themselves, they have made themselves, and that their fitness now does unmake, you I have given suck and know what is to love, how tender it is to love the babe that milks me. I would, while it was smiling in my face, have plucked my nipple from his boneless gums and dashed the brains out. Had I so sworn to you, so sworn as you have done to this, 

Mark Lawson

If we should fail, 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

We fail. But screw your courage to the sticking place and will not fail when Duncan is asleep. Where to the rather shall his hard days journey sound be invite him. His two chamberlains will eye with wine and waffles so convinced that memory, the water of the brain shall be a fme and the receipt of reason limbic only when in swish sleep their drenched natures lie as in a death. What cannot you and I perform upon the unguarded Duncan, what not put upon his spongy officers who shall bear the guilt of our great quell 

Mark Lawson

Bring forth men, children only for the undaunted metal should compose nothing but males. Will it not be received when we have marked with blood those sleepy two of his own chamber and used their very daggers that they have dumped 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Who dares receive an other as we shall make our griefs and clamor roar upon his death. 

Mark Lawson

I’m settled and bend up each corporal agent to this terrible feat away and mock the time with Ferris show False face must hide with a false heart death. No, Really? 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

Excellent. 

Nick Cagle

Wow. Wow, you guys, that was really, really beautiful. Thank you. I got every little detail and you took every note. How do, how do you guys do that, Nathan? They took every note. 

Nathan Agin

It’s it’s the, the quality of everybody in the room, Nick. It just, it it it takes care of itself. That’s why I can just go take a nap in the back of a theater And, and, And I don’t have to worry about anybody on stage. It all, it all works. It’s, it’s magic. 

No, this was great. It was wonderful. I was, I was listening to just about all of it and yeah, just really enjoyed the specificity and, and I, I think there are, and this play particularly lines that maybe we’ve heard a lot in, you know, watching YouTube clips or movies or stage plays like, but just to have the time to really go, what are they saying and what are the metaphors they’re using? What’s the imagery here? It is just really, really fun to really unpack all that. So thank you guys for spending so much time doing that. It’s really, you know, like Nick said, we’re getting even more from the scene already, so, you know. Wonderful. 

Nick Cagle

And next week we have a whole new scene to explore. There you go. 

Mark Lawson

That was awesome. 

Nathan Agin

Good. 

Mark Lawson

Thank you for that. 

Nathan Agin

Great. Well good. I’m glad everybody had a great time. Yeah. Excellent. Well we will, we’ll see everybody here next week. And for those watching on YouTube, subscribe, click those notification bells so you don’t miss anything. You can support the project on Patreon, as I mentioned at the top. But yeah, come on back for, for week two of Macbeth as we keep exploring these characters and these scenes. So thank you guys all so much. Have a great rest of your evening and we will, we’ll see you back here in the rehearsal room. Thank you 

Meaghan Boeing (she/her)

so much. So nice to meet you guys. 

Mark Lawson

And 

Nick Cagle

you. Bravo everybody. Bravo. 

Gideon Rappaport

Good one. 

Mark Lawson

Thanks. 

Nathan Agin

Goodnight. Goodnight.